Thank you, dear friends for all the encouragement. What we
write on this blog is not a knee jerk reaction. This is the consolidation of
our findings and observations of many many years. Some people who cannot handle
to face the reality of what is being exposed on this blog have conveniently
said that we are writing on this blog to gain popularity and for "vain
glory." "Gain popularity and become famous" for what may we ask? Is it to
contest in the next election in Tamil Nadu and woo the voters to vote for us?
These accusations are extremely silly and show how immature and foolish some
people in LEF are. It just shows how crooked the thinking of people in LEF has
become. Is there not such a thing as doing the right thing just for the sake of
doing the right thing? When did the value system in LEF become so eroded that
people have forgotten to leave alone do the right thing but also not even recognize
that we who are trying to expose the Daniel family rot are doing the right
thing? Aren't some of these people in LEF icons for fighting corruption in
government offices where they worked? Did we not have people in LEF who refused
to bend their knees in front of their corrupt bosses? Did we not have people in
LEF who were willing to take a transfer or forego a promotion for opposing their
corrupt secular leaders? What happened to all that morality? Did we not have
people in LEF who risked their own safety to help and defend the poor? What
happened to that conviction to do that right thing at any cost? How did we
become so complacent so as to accept evil that is happening in the church? How
are we able to shrug our soldiers and walk away saying that these people who
are doing this evil in the church are answerable to God and not confront their
evil deeds? If we are able to walk away without confronting the evil people in
the church today, why did we not do the same thing when we faced corruption in
our offices? Was what we did in our government jobs just a grand show of our self- righteousness or what you are doing now in the church the show of Godly righteousness?
There were some high ranking officials in LEF who risked their own lives to
protect the government money and machinery which they were entrusted with. If
someone could be so zealous to fight corruption in their secular jobs and
protect government's money, why would they not show the same zeal to protect
God's money? What is the reason for this decline in morality in LEF? Where,
when and how did LEF take the wrong turn to let this kind of moral
debacle? How did LEF pulpits become so filthy and permissive that a man like John Branch who
while living in gross immorality felt absolutely at home to walk on to the LEF
pulpits with a big Bible in hand to stand and preach to thousands? How did LEF
pulpits which are adorned with banners saying -"LET US WORSHIP THE LORD IN
THE BEAUTY OF HOLINESS" did not make a man like John Branch tremble to
stand up and preach? What are we missing here? How did so many people in LEF
become so blind as to not see this debacle coming? What exactly are parents of
teenagers and college students expecting their children to receive when packing
off their children to go to student's retreats? These are some questions the
youngsters in LEF need to ask their die-hard LEF loyalist parents and elders in their
own churches?
Now we hear that HQ is going to be sold. From reliable sources, we
have gathered that this sale is just an eye wash. It appears that LEF has
defaulted on payments on the loan they have taken by mortgaging HQ property 12
years ago to some rich Marwari guy. The interest on the loan and the
principal amount has added up to so much that they are now forced to part with
this property and it is kind of shocking that LEF may not make any money out of this sale. We are yet to
verify the authenticity of this information and we will post it as we get more information on this. We ask for help if someone can get more information on this HQ sale issue. We greatly appreciate if someone can
cross-verify this information for us. If this information is true, then we have
more to worry about. What other LEF properties are mortgaged and why? Where did
all the money go? Was it paid in dollars to Daniels in US? These are some big
questions that we need to dig out answers for? What were the board members
doing while all of these properties were mortgaged? Did they just sign on the
dotted lines without actually reading what they were signing? Were the
signatures forged? Even the Gandhi family that ruled India for over 60 years is being chased by the present BJP
government for a meager 90 crores. Gandhis are worth few lakhs of crores but are
having to face the music for cheating the government for just 90 crores in the
National Herald case. If LEF and Daniel family did do spurious things, they
will not be spared by the present Indian government. This is to the board
members of LEF- please for a moment do not think that you can escape on the grounds
of being ignorant. You signed an oath to protect the interest of the
organization and not that of Daniel family. There is a huge
difference!!! If you by any chance feel that you may have been duped into
signing something without reading what you have signed for, it is time to wake
up and clean the mess and clear your name out of it. No board member can escape
saying that - Joshua Daniel, Immanuel Chakravarthy, John Daniel, Lily Daniel or
Lydia Daniel asked us to sign and so we just trusted them and signed. Every
board member will be booked as accomplices for the crimes this Daniel family
committed when things come to light. 40 years we managed without being caught
and so for the next 40 years we will not be caught is a stupid way of
hoodwinking yourselves to eventually end up in jail. Think about all the blank
papers and blank cheques you signed and gave to Joshua Daniel and his rogue
team. Go and clear yourself before the BJP government comes and knocks on your
door asking for explanations.
Please send us an email at savelefi@hotmail.com with any details you might have to prevent this supposed sale of HQ by this rogue family and its stooges.
Please send us an email at savelefi@hotmail.com with any details you might have to prevent this supposed sale of HQ by this rogue family and its stooges.
Many people must remember how Joshua Daniel used to boast from the platform that officials at airports never bothered him, telling him that they 'knew him to be an honest man'.
ReplyDeleteWhat is so nauseatingly reprehensible about this family is the way that its members make such claims very publicly, and browbeat others from the platform, whilst all the time they have been playing fast and loose with money and assets which do not belong to them. We witness this even now in the lame ramblings and anecdotes about paying workmen which John Daniel offers instead of preaching the Word in Spirit and in truth. No wonder John Branch imitated this behaviour, notably in the different sphere of playing fast and loose with women with whom he was not entitled to have relationships. In the ten or so years he was used to 'preach' in LEF retreats he had plenty of tutoring from Joshua Daniel, a man adept in the art of deception; both the deception of others, and the deception of self.
How can people, knowing all this, still continue to pay attention to any member of the Daniel family active in LEF (or in the case of Betty, wanting to be active in LEF, but not succeeding)? To be a Daniel follower now, you must either be very foolish, or yourself involved and implicated in their self-serving, evil strategies.
WELL SAID THERE ARE only two classes of people in lef. 1.Foolish. 2.Robbers and their gang. It's really a tough task to release the one from the other.
DeleteDear Whistle blowers don't spread lies here. HQ is owned and won't be up for sale.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous Dec. 10 @ 9.27pm
DeleteHQ is owned by whom, exactly, and paid for how? Perhaps you can enlighten us......
It sounds to me that LEF is trying to deviate WB’s key strategies by creating a scene about selling the property and mortgaging. I doubt selling and mortgage are authenticated information. (this is my personal view.. just a thought came to my mind but I am not against to WB). However, it is good to know certain things very deeply from a reliable source. Please continue to dig more on this topic.
ReplyDeleteWe need to be careful when we work on a mission. People will try to get our attention to other less important or unrealistic things.
Secondly, I had an another thought came to my mind. Why did IC confess his unfair dealings with the woman in front of the church? I was told that the Investigators were shocked when they saw the kind of text being shared from IC’s mobile phone to the victim woman. All of them were disgusting messages. Then I realized/thought that it was not LEF forced him to confess but the officers would have forced him and LEF to do so in order to escape from arrest and to prevent other big problem. I somehow doubt that LEF (JD,JJD,LD,JLD) and the officers might have worked out some win-win plans. God only knows!! If anyone has visibility on this, please share more information.
Betty from her childhood days, she was a mean person and protected by her Dad. She will diminish on her own soon because of her volatility mind.
Anonymous December 11, 2015 1:40 AM and Anonymous December 10, 2015 9:27 PM, we sincerely hope that what we are hearing about this HQ sale is just a rumor. Of all the things that we posted here, we hope this one thing is just a lie. We whole heartedly wish that this is just a rumor even if it means that it discredits us as someone who is spreading lies and rumors. It is alright that Daniels and their stooges drop the idea (if they were remotely considering selling HQ or any other LEF property) of selling LEF properties just to prove that whistle blowers are spreading lies. In the big scheme of things it is better that we are wrong about this rumor. We had to post this just to forestall any or all attempts of the corrupt Daniel family members and stooges to mess with LEF properties which are bought with the money that was generated by sweat and blood of many LEF evangelists of the past and the hard earned money of many poor and middle class people who faithfully have been giving their hard earned money as tithes and offerings. Most LEF attendees are low to middle class citizens. We very rarely find some tycoons and wealthy land lords who throw their money as donations to LEF. Every pie that a LEF believer puts in is the money that s/he could use to send his/her child to a better school/college or what he can put away to buy a small house so that his/her family may not have to move from one rented house to another. But most LEF people denied themselves the luxury of having that 10% to 15% disposable income to spend on the betterment of their own lives to a cause that they believed was noble. NOBODY HAS A RIGHT TO MAKE MOCKERY OF THE SACRIFICE OF THE POOREST OF THE PERSON WHO MIGHT JUST DROP JUST THAT LAST ONE RUPEE S/HE HAS INTO THE OFFERING BAG!!!
DeleteI have asked these questions to every LEF Evangelist whom i have met in the past 2 years and no one had answers.
ReplyDeleteQ-1.Who are the members of the LEF Board or Governing Council.
Q-2.Are Joshua Daniel's family the whole and sole owners of LEF .I specifically asked about the property,the offerings and other regular income generating projects.
Q-3.Why where there 2 sets of moral yardsticks for Joshua's older daughter and the other LEF believers.The older girl married Brian divorced him and married a Roman Catholic guy who must be at least 10 years junior to her divorced him and she married her present husband.She pretended contrition by kneeling on the stage holding her bible close to her chest and apologised but a few months later married another guy (her third husband).
Q-4 Why is stage artistry (Preaching ,Playing music or Singing from the stage) restricted to members of the Daniel clan.
Q-5.How did the righteous Joe and his family accept IC as their bosom pal.The guy used to come to Hyderabad and other big centres in Andhra Pradesh and brag about his proximity with Joe and his family .
Q-6.Why were Kamala Amma Garu and Whitson Garu sent to Gujarat in their old age.Did a simple family rivalry between sisters in law go out of control leading to a public show of practicing revenge.
No LEF evangelist or believer trusts John Daniel including members of his inner circle.
Good Questions Anonymous December 10, 2015 10:48 PM
DeleteYou will not get answers for these questions from any of the preacher in LEF. Beacause, they are serving life to Daniel's Family not for the GOD or for the poor people around them.. If they are really concern about serving GOD and needy around them they would have left LEF and do their services in private..
Its time for Preachers in LEF to question themselves..
- Are we working for a money making organisation (LEF) to comfort the rich to make richest..!!
or
- Are we really washing feet of poor around us, as Jesus did ?? or we deceiving these poor peoples by collecting their hard earned offerings collecting with our own hands and sending to HQ for rich people comforts ??
Wake up and lift your yoke, choose poor to serve not rich !!
I'm 100% sure LEF (Daniel Family) will not invest in any more property hereafter foreseeing the revolts that could happen. Preachers waiting and wanting to have/own the centers they are looking after.
ReplyDeleteLike the Canadian said if the preachers get to gather and all revolt and join to gather against this Daniel clan nothing can be done other than parting with the centers.
They will very wisely conduct meetings in rented places and walk away with the collection.
For example there is already a LEF evangelist (I Heard his name is Mr Luke )who is running his own center. I don't know who owns the property there. But it used to be LEF meetings before conducted by LEF evangelist who labored in the area for many years and now he is running the same meetings independently - with no ties to LEF now.
I guess there was a similar situation in Chennai too.
Hope many will follow.
Guys they will never sell it. Instead they may plan to grab some more land beside it. Or swag in LD language.
ReplyDeleteI request LEF friends and followers (the Danielites) to think over the following points.
ReplyDeletea) Chennai and neighbouring places have suffered a major calamity due to the rains and floods.What is LEF's Response to this crisis in Chennai.
The houses and properties of LEF supporters are also damaged .How does LEF plan to help those who have lost everything .We don't expect you to to help people of other religions or work with the government and offer charity .We are waiting to see how you guys respond.
b).We hear from our friends in Telangana and Andhra Pradesh that many LEF properties procured in the past 10 years is under litigation .We paid our tithes and offered our everything but you fellows invested in properties which were not legally tenable.Joshua Daniel went about running affairs of the church with recklessness. In Bangalore Francis bought land from a tout who sold him land which belongs to the government.I can cite many instances.
c)Why did LEF drive away Rev.Whitson Garu and Kamala Akka to Salem?.Some of us who have known them for 50 years are planning to hire a busses and travel from different places in Andhra Pradesh to visit them soon.
d)How did LEF allow a fellow who was Immoral (IC) and an Adulterous preacher Branchy to preach from its pulpits.
e)To the Daniel Clan i wish to say God will Judge you according to your actions.Be warned that you are more accountable then we are as you have misled millions during the past 70 years.
When South India was hit by severe floods in 1977 many LEF believers from Andhra lost their properties .To the best of my knowledge LEF did not do anything.
DeleteIn 2004 when the Tsunami struck South India (26th Dec 2004)LEF folks were not impacted .Every church,christian Organization mobilized resources to help the victims and their families but LEF remained a silent spectator.LEF hq people are not givers .They are only known for demanding and receiving goodies.
We Claim LEF to support at least Chennai LEF church members who suffered alot in recent calamity.. Many Hindu people are donating and supporting whole heatedly..
ReplyDeleteLEF never donated anything to poor nor helped any one.. at least this is the opportunity to serve people and please God..
LEF ??? respond and bring your treasury out for services !!
LeF and charity are enemies. ALL THEY KNOW IS GIVE ME MORE. No daniel family knows OR HAVE HEARD " helping hands are better than praying hands" they will pray freely for the victims. They want heathen souls..and eventually collections from them after they become beleivers ...But they wont donate ..
ReplyDeleteYesterday it was in Google news..2000 commercial sex workers from Maharashtra have donated for the chennai floods. They had only one meal a day to save money for the victims and collected cash. How blessed are they.
SHAME ON LEF.
HOW DIFFICULT IS IT TO ANNOUNCE IN CENTERS TO ASK PEOPLE TO DONATE IF THEY WANT FOR THE VICTIMS AND COLLECT GOODS AND FUNDS AND SEND ...
may be Daniels are afraid their collection will go down if people donate for flood victims and they can fuel their Mercs..
Joshua Daniel always taught his followers that LEF is not a social service organization but a soul winning organization. LEF wins people and does not serve people. When you win you stand to gain and when you serve you stand to lose is the leading principle of LEF. We saw Gnanakalanjiam and his family posing for pictures in Kashmmir flood relief activities. Why doesn't his family now not post some pictures of flood relief activities in Chennai which is just in his back yard. Is there some kind of zoning laws enforced in LEF that restricts them from going and helping out when calamities like these happen?
ReplyDeleteif u notice, lot of poor people wait at the gate of OTHER churches during Sunday service but not at LEF church. that itself speaks about the blindness rather sickness of the people.
ReplyDeleteAll the people who had morals and stood against corruption in the earlier days of lef have either gone to be with the Lord or have left lef. All that is left is thieves, liers and immorals.
ReplyDeleteQ-1. Who are the members of the LEF Board or Governing Council?
ReplyDeleteAfter a very arduous search I found out the following (this is incomplete)
(names are imaginary to protect the sources of Information, but persons are real)
Lady QM. Fully mad and lunatic, violently psychotic, Uncontrollable by her husband, drove out her mother/sister/brother in law, to die on the streets, even lived separately from husband, rudest person on earth. Sadistic. Will attend all meetings, late and make a great prayer, “Lord forgive us for coming late”, sleeps very well during messages. One close relative ran away from home unable to bear the harassment. None of her close relatives will open their mouths, they are so afraid of her. LD will blindly support her (and vice-versa), The truth came out one day, seems Lady QM will pay Rs. 11,000 each time she met the JD family, JD will not touch money and so he will get it in an offering bag, (later he will transfer to his purse / brief case and spend as he liked), this is helpful in 2 ways, JD will proudly claim, I have not touched the dirty money and No record will be kept.
Lady GK and Sir KK,
Refuses to move to children’s care even though they all are well off, can’t give up the reins of power, JD family won’t leave him, because they cannot find a person like him who will give 100 % offerings. Expects the poor worshipers to cook and feed them daily. (great statement he made, “If God doesn’t give us food we will be hungry”), But can’t you ask your kith and kin to take care of you? Can’t give a message without referring to SEX and its variants (Sad but true), Will preach that Samson was sleeping on the lap of a harlot in LEF weddings. (and describe what thought Samsun was having, in graphic detail), When he preached, once a group of Girls, all got up and walked out.
Lady TE
Richest lady in the Daniel robber tribe, keeps so quit and a low profile, has stolen enough, Shares the loot with her children who live extravagant all-expense paid from LEF funds. Knows which side the wind is blowing
Lady LD, and LLD
To fill up the vacancy of JD, LLD was promoted. Zero Qualifications. Eats all the money and still would not be satisfied. LD acts so spiritual but still knows how to take care of herself and family interests.
JJD, great grandson, and son of the founder. Totally shameless ruthless robber. Feels the LEF owes them a living, Liar and a fraud.
All the above member’s appointments are illegal as they are related and from one family. So the secrecy.
Apart from some extras like, IC, John Raja etc. will be taken on as and when required (will be also dropped quietly).
Travel and all expenses will be met from the LEF offerings.
Using the fig leaf of a council / Board the JD tribe stole everything. The emperor has no clothes is the correct situation. The council members are so bold and good, If the granddaughter of JD orders them, “RUN” they all will start running without even knowing in what direction, and will keep on running till the order comes to stop. Even with socks on one leg and shoes on the other they will run. (Continued)
(continued2)
ReplyDeleteQ-2. Are Joshua Daniel's family the whole and sole owners of LEF. I specifically asked about the property, the offerings and other regular income generating projects.
The JD robber family loves secrecy, even they won’t know how much is their wealth. Let me explain. The LEF bought some properties in its name in the earlier years. These were never shown to others. So no one knows, where and what properties were brought. In mainline churches such documents will be available in the safe custody of the Administration, here in this robber mafia group it is completely hidden. Apart from this JD, JJD LD LLD bought properties in their own name from LEF funds, there is a deep confusion of what is the official treasury and what is the personal; wealth of the JD clan. The tribe members will proudly say “My faith is my only treasure, knowing fully well that they Are lying through their teeth.” Simple answer is this, JD family is the Lord and master of all wealth (money, cars, buildings and tomorrow all young girls and children). No one really knows who is the current treasurer.
Q-3. Why where there 2 sets of moral yardsticks for Joshua's older daughter and the other LEF believers.
Q-4 Why is stage artistry (Preaching, playing music or Singing from the stage) restricted to members of the Daniel clan.
Q 3 and 4 are interlinked. The Daniel children and grandchildren (Ok some of them) were filled with the Holy spirit before they were born. When other children cried, these special children only cried for God’s word. Even their baby sitters were converted as these children boldly proclaimed the word of God. They were better than Adam, Abraham, Daniel, Joseph and near equal or better than Jesus himself (hope you got the point) That is why the LEF has invited them to come and steal and enjoy all its money (which they didn’t want.). All Evangelists who keep their mouth fully shut will be rewarded in many ways (not by God)
Simple explanation is that this is a family business.
Q-5. How did the righteous Joe and his family accept IC as their bosom pal.
I feel that IC learnt bad from JD., To call Joe as righteous is not correct. I have seen him behave very dishonestly. IC helped JD. LD and JJD to move money from India, as a reward JD winked at his evil life.
Q-6. Why were Kamala Amma Garu and Whitson Garu sent to Gujarat in their old age. Did a simple family rivalry between sisters in law go out of control leading to a public show of practicing revenge.
The JD family wanted them dead, they didn’t want to share with anybody else. Grab all was JJD and JD and LD and LLD moto and that’s why all these happened.
Dear AnonymousDecember 17, 2015 1:13 AM,thank you very much for you creative write up on who the board members are and also thanks for the insights into their backgrounds. If your information is accurate then these are all kith and kin of Lily Daniel. QM is some one who has something to do with Queen Mary college. Sir KK and Lady GK are another couple from the same family. Lady TE is the widow of Francis Daniel. And Lily Daniel, Lydia and John Daniel are of course the heads of this mafia group. QM, lady GK and lady TE who are on board are 3 sisters and these women are all daughters of M.D. Paul and M.D. Paul is maternal uncle of Lily Daniel. Lily Daniel and 2 of her children are on board. If this is not family business, what else is family business? Are there any rules for non-profit societies that prohibit nepotism while deciding who gets a spot on the board? How is this one family team representing the thousands of LEF people from all over India? Who elected them? Where and when were the elections held? Interestingly there are not enough eligible men to get a spot on LEF board. Women rule in LEF!!! That too lunatic ones who cannot be controlled !!!
Deleteto be more precise the doctor wife of late JD held her uncle the late Dr.Milk (translate it in tamil ) in very high regard.It is her uncle who gave her hand in marriage to late JD as her father refused to get his daughter married to JD.This womans coterie consists of her cousins (the daughters of the late Dr.Milk) and she manages her business using them.If you carefully observe the cousins of Lily and her older sister's sons in law constitute 60% of the LEF board.Then there are other yes men like Dr.SamKing (translate king in tamil) ,Mr.Beanraj Samuel ,Gunalan and some Andhra based chamchas. They will see to it that the extended family constitutes 60 or 70% of the board.
DeleteMrs.Francis Daniel is not in the Board but her son Calu baby is her nominee.
DeleteAll the men in the LEF became eunuchs a long ago (including me and You), So the women rule. Is it not atrocious that one family an another relative family control the LEF. Without any elections (Open lie that elections are conducted is told to the Government), (all in the board know that what I say is true.All know that IC stole money, they will be quiet.) They are Nice, Honest, Hardworking, Kind, Lovely, Christian, Moral Gentlemen, so full of love, but wont open their mouth against these illegal activities (even though they all know fully well about them). God will judge us all for keeping quiet.
DeleteWhy this partiality against the older son and older daughter, let us also make them Board members to balance
DeleteVery true. They can also make the pet cats and dogs of the Daniel family board members !!! Why not ? It is one big loot team that eats the money given by the poor believers in LEF there is enough loot stacked up for all the Daniel family members to eat. Let them all get on the board!!!
DeleteI request that all non Indians who attend the Retreats abroad to please ask questions to the JD tribe. to answer specific questions and then allow JJD and LD to preach. Dont just sit and listen, think, react and ask questions. It is your money and you have every right to ask.
ReplyDeleteI asked one of the UK trustees many yeas ago:
Delete1. 'What happens to the tithes and offerings?'
Response: ' You can look online on the Charity Commission website. It's all there!'
Comment: The Charity Commission does not show in detail where the money comes from and where it goes to. In 2009 over £200K more than usual was shown as income, but the detailed accounts are not available and I could not find them archived.
2. 'What do Joshua Daniel and his family live on, given that he claims never to have had a pay check?'
Response: 'The 'fellowship' helps him'.
Comment: I do not think I was imagining a degree of unease in the person being asked these questions. Since I considered him to be a friend, I did not feel able to insist at that time.
A little later, when I had stopped attending LEF meetings, Lily Daniel telephoned me to find out why. I asked her a number of questions, to which she gave no answer, or no satisfactory answer.
One question was: 'Why does your husband try to dominate the private lives of those who attend LEF meetings?'
Response: 'he is their spiritual father'.
My response: 'We are told in the Bible not to call any man father but our Father in heaven. How do you justify your claim for your husband?'
No reply!
I then asked how she could justify telling a family who were thinking of leaving LEF that if they did, bad things would happen to their and their children, such as illness or children going astray.
Response: 'well, such things have happened....'.
Whilst the Daniel clan have no real power over non-Indians, neither can they be made to give answers by normal means of enquiry. That telephone call lasted over 2 hours.....
,
£200K profit, can mean that Sales were 100 % of profit, so the Book store was having a turnover of £200,00,000 each year. Was it also selling Nuclear weapons, Aircraft carriers, Navy ships, Tanks, etc.. Such a large yearly turnover is interesting
DeleteThe 'normal' income is approximately £200K+ pa. Charity Commission accounts show that there is little or no profit on that, although the expenses reported are not detailed. £13,000 of income goes out as a salary to an anonymous employee. The other helpers are not paid. The anonymous employee is in fact one of the trustees who also has a part-time job in an unrelated, commercial company. Trustees are not supposed to be beneficiaries of a UK charitable trust; in fact the married couple who run Revelation TV as a charitable trust are currently under investigation because whistleblowers reported that charitable trust income was being diverted for the use and benefit of this couple (Howard Conder and wife) and possibly others. Joshua Daniel chose Revelation TV to broadcast his 'messages' (birds of a feather flock together?).
DeleteThe paying of a salary to, or in other ways benefitting, a trustee is normally forbidden, as is the giving of charitable trust income to 'help' people like the Daniels (who are also trustees!).
In 2009 the annual income jumped from approx. £200k to over £400k. Given that the business expenses would have remained fairly constant, leaving, as was routinely reported, little or no profit on the usual £200k, we have to wonder what happened to the extra £200k received in 2009, and where did it actually come from? LEF UK is not so known or popular that new donors would suddenly have appeared with an extra £200k of tithes and offerings (the UK speaker at the 2015 May retreat was quite candid about the continuing smallness of the work about which he was reporting). It would have been impossible for the bookshop to have made that much extra money, since it is very small, and Christian bookshops in any case are closing down in the UK rather than expanding their business (as a result of the advent of electronic readers, and online suppliers like Amazon).
It has been suggested previously that tithes and offerings were being transferred by hawala means to the UK, and then onwards, more legally (in terms of banking), to the USA.
Perhaps somebody from the UK centre can supply answers to the following:
1. Where did that extra £200k of income in 2009 come from?
2. What was it spent on, or where did it go to?
3. How, exactly, did/does the UK centre 'help' the Daniels financially, as was the response from a UK trustee to the enquiry about what the Daniels live on, given that Joshua never sought or had employment?
4. Can the UK 'team' honestly give an assurance that no money has ever been 'donated' to it which might have originated in India from Indian tithes and offerings?
In response to the four questions above, having asked a former member of the U.K. church:
Delete1&2. The 200k was a deficit, not a surplus. It was given to the Paris ministry to help them to buy a place to worship. The money was from a surplus over many previous years.
3. Sometimes a few hundred pounds would be given to the speaker (Joshua, John or other) after a retreat as a kind of fee.
4. The answer is yes. The church was funded locally.
In response to the four questions above, having asked a former member of the U.K. church:
Delete1&2. The 200k was a deficit, not a surplus. It was given to the Paris ministry to help them to buy a place to worship. The money was from a surplus over many previous years.
3. Sometimes a few hundred pounds would be given to the speaker (Joshua, John or other) after a retreat as a kind of fee.
4. The answer is yes. The church was funded locally.
Anonymous Jan. 3 @ 11.25am
DeleteThank you for the information. However you have not been given sufficient detail to satisfy most people's serious concerns.
Surely the amount of income for 2009 shows in the Charity Commission record (of which little detail is now available to view) as being in excess of £400k for that year? How can that produce/represent a deficit of £200K, if the normal income was around £200K p.a.? Also, the surplus, if any, for the preceding years does not show enough to amount to an extra £200k in 2009. If it was accumulated, as you have been told, where does this gradually accumulated capital show in the Charity Commission records?
Where does the £200K allegedly sent to Paris show on the UK centre's financial records? Surely there must be a record of how much the Paris building was expected to cost, in order for this donation amount to be decided upon (decided upon by whom, since those who tithed etc. were not asked?).
Can such a small bookshop, plus a very small congregation (of mostly people of limited income, quite a few of whom would not be tithing anyway) really produce a regular annual income of over £200k?
Even if the Daniels only received 'a few hundred pounds' from the UK centre, how can that be legal, given that Joshua and John Daniel, at least, are/have been 'trustees'. Trustees are not allowed to benefit from charitable trust income. No trustee is allowed to benefit from charitable trust income, even if he/she is no longer a trustee. Anyone who has ever been a trustee must never derive such benefit. Hence the giving of a 'fee', however modest, derived from charitable trust income, to a trustee, past or present, would be illegal. Who paid /pays the Daniels' considerable travel expenses to and from the UK, especially when John Daniel's large family attends? If these are paid from UK income, where does it show on which records? If not, where does it show on any records (unless John Daniel pays, but he has been unemployed for some years, and when he was employed, his position was not nearly as elevated as his father gave LEF adherents to believe).
Also, how can the trustee who takes a salary of approx. £13K p.a. from the charitable trust justify doing so? Even if the taking of this money could be legally justified, how can this person morally justify taking such a large amount when he is also employed, and he must know that the Indian 'evangelists' (his counterparts) receive little or nothing?
I note that you are not able to give a reassurance from your informer that no money has been channelled via the UK centre from Indian offerings to the Daniels in the USA (via hawala, or any other method). If it has not, what have the Daniels been living on? The Canadians and the Americans either abandoned Joshua Daniel's organisation, or ejected him, so not much income was available from them. The Germans also ejected him (apart from a few scattered folk). The biggest amount of income must be from Indian offerings, but it is illegal to export more than a limited amount of rupees; and doing this via legal banking would involve a large proportion being lost to taxes etc..
Can the UK centre people identify to you what the Daniel family income is, and where it comes from, and by what means? Do the Daniels pay USA or any other income tax on it? Can the UK people say who is/are the legal owners of the Streatham bungalow (now a valuable property because of its location)? Can they say whether any compensation is due in respect of the redevelopment of the area in which the book shop is currently situated, and if it is, to whom it will be paid?
If the Daniels were genuine church leaders or missionaries, the answers to these questions would be very easy to supply, as such amounts would be agreed with the givers and formally recorded. In fact no-one would need to ask in the first place.
In respect of point no. 4, that the local London centre (described by you as a 'church') funds itself is the only thing that is not in question.
Firstly, it is not my intention to defend the decision making or practices of the UK centre. I believe financial transparency and accountability are a must in a church. Therefore, I will not offer any comments when this due process has not been followed.
DeleteI sought responses to these four questions because they seem to be connected to accusations of financial fraud mentioned in a previous blog post. I am trying to get to the bottom of this, as these are serious allegations.
I believe the accounts show that 200k more was spent than was received. If you disagree, please provide evidence to the contrary. The last five years show an average surplus of just under 10k, I believe the time period involved for the accumulation of the donation was more than 10 years. The video broadcasts are now a big part of the annual outlay, therefore the surplus could have been greater in the past.
Agreed, the decision to send the money to Paris was not made by the centre members, though that is not to say that they were against it. Therefore, I don't have any information on the decision making process.
Can you show that the stated income of the UK centre, which is required by the Charity Commission to be externally audited, is not accurate? Otherwise, this does not amount to a question, but is a statement that you don't believe the official accounts without reason, and does not help us determine the truth.
I need to ask some more questions on the issue of trustees receiving benefits from a charity. I am not a legal expert, but I know that it is incorrect to say that it is illegal for a trustee to be paid anything.
The reasoning for the salary is available on the Charity Commission website in the annual report with the accounts. It is for video editing, which would cost significantly more if outsourced. I believe the gentleman is only employed elsewhere part-time. This amount is not much more than minimum wage.
My response to questions 3 and 4 imply that the UK centre did not channel money, but I will reiterate. Other than the Paris donation, no international money transfers were made. No money was received from India, no money was transferred to the US. I mentioned the "few hundred pounds" as an exception to this, as this was not carried via bank transfer.
Other than these contributions, the UK centre did not have any visibility of the finances in the US, therefore I am not able to answer the questions regarding their finances.
The bungalow deed is in the name of the centre's charity.
I don't see how the book shop redevelopment or any related compensation is in any way relevant to the aforementioned issues. I don't have any information on that.
Anonymous 7 Jan 2016 3.23pm
DeletePart 1
Thank you for posting the responses to the enquiries you have made of a 'former member of the UK church'. It is indeed important that all these issues are clarified. If there has been no wrongdoing involving the UK centre, that needs to be plainly demonstrated. If the UK centre has in any way been party to conveying money to the Daniels which they should not have received, that too needs to be made clear, even if the people concerned were taken advantage of by those more cunning than they are.
You mention 'a former member of the church'. Can you say how long ago that person ceased to attend LEF UK? What is meant by 'member' in this context, since LEF UK has never been a properly-constituted church with a defined membership roll, regular church meetings (that is, formal meetings of all attendees who are on that roll, with agendae and minutes, and regular, written updates to them - including detailed annual accounts) ? It is important to know what involvement this person (the alleged 'ex member') had with the running of LEF UK, since mere attenders were never given such information. On the other hand, if the person who advised you was one of the small circle directly dominated by Joshua Daniel, then the information they have given you may not be able to be trusted. It is unfortunate that this point has to be made, but it is now known that the Daniels and/or their associates have made people who trust them sign blank cheques etc.
Why are you reluctant to comment when you find that due process has not been followed, given that you too are anxious to get to the bottom of the serious allegations which have been made here, now going back for nearly a year?
Part of the problem with the UK centre relying on Charity Commission accounts rather than the required detailed accounts which all genuine churches normally submit to members on at least an annual basis is that the CC accounts available online relating to declared income below a certain figure were not detailed enough to discern precisely where money had come from and on what it was spent. The year 2009 might have been an exception, but both your source and you claim that the extra £200k was expenditure, not income. That year does not show up on the internet, and appears to have been archived. As you have had a sight of the records for a number of years, including 2009, please can you post the records here? It is difficult to discuss actual figures in a vacuum, and detailed records for 2009 seem elusive. It seemed fairly clear that £400k + was reported as income in 2009, but we were not able to access more details. I believe there is an email available for LEF Whistleblowers which I am sure they will let you use, as such accounts can be sent as an attachment; or perhaps there are specific internet links you could supply?
Anonymous 7 Jan. 2016 3.23pm
DeletePart 2:
As regards your comment about our not believing that the Charity commission accounts are accurate: as above, the problem is that they are not detailed enough to show precisely where money came from, and where it went to. How is the income made up? How much of it comprises tithes and freewill offerings? How much comprises actual book shop sales? A genuine church would make this information very plain, and the defined membership would be asked to suggest and vote about any gifts or salaries to be paid from income. You admit that 'centre members' had no say in the alleged Paris gift, but again, whom do you mean by 'centre members'? The people who merely come to services, or the 'inner circle' of those directly dominated by the Daniels?
As regards trustees of a British Charitable Trust not being permitted to benefit from the income and proceeds of that charity: we can assure you that this is the general rule, and in fact Revelation TV (used by fhe UK centre to broadcast Joshua Daniel's messages) has been in the process of being investigated for that very reason -it is alleged that the Conders have illegally benefited from the income generated by Revelation TV. There can be exceptions in certain cases, but these would have to be permitted by the Commission, and we understand that this would involve significant modifications to the trust document. There is no evidence that the LEF UK document has undergone any modification to allow for any trustee to be a beneficiary of the trust. In fact we have been unable to locate it. It would help enormously if your informer could produce any trust document that allows for named Daniel trustees to be beneficiaries, or for any other specific trustee to be formally employed by the trust and receive a salary.
Please can you provide evidence of the reason (video recording) given for the salaried employment of an LEF trustee, which you say is in the trust report? We do not recall any mention of this, only that the trust has one employee who earnt at that time £13k pa. It is true that the recipient only works part-time elsewhere, but this has always been by choice, ss he is highly skilled in his trade. It is also true that what he takes from LEF income is an average wage (proportionate to the amount of time he gives to the Centre). We can also add that he is dedicated to his LEF work, and for many years was not paid. However none of this is the point.
The first question is, has the Charity Commission specifically sanctioned the paying out of trust income in salary to this trustee?
The second question is, as we have indicated, why does this worker receive a reasonable payment for his services (whatever they may be), when it has been made plain on this blog and elsewhere that his equivalents in India (e.g. centre 'evangelists', or the Bible School students who are required to perform hard labour, or those who work just as hard in the LEF private printing firm to produce Joshua Daniel 's writings etc.) receive little or nothing from LEF income? Why is this man not required to 'learn faith' and 'live by faith' in the same way that his Indian counterparts are ordered to do?
Anonymous 7 Jan. 2016 3.23pm
DeletePart 3
In connection with monies being transferred via the UK centre to the Daniels in the USA: if you read back on this blog you will see that more than once it has been alleged that hawala was used to bring this about, and that the UK centre was used as part of the procedure. By its very nature hawala leaves no record. If there is any truth in this, we would not expect to find any record of monies being legally transferred in from India. That would defeat the whole purpose of using a money-laundering process. Similarly cash might be taken out of the UK, having been supplied via hawala, using the UK centre connection, perhaps without those who run it even being aware. You have already mentioned that the Daniels were usually given 'a few hundred pounds', presumably in sterling, in addition to deriving their frequent travel expenses from LEF funds, and having their board etc. paid for; it seems that if a few hundred pounds can be taken back to the USA, then so can a few thousand. We are not experts in this complicated hawala process. If you are not an Indian we certainly do not expect you to be. The fact remains that the non-employed members of the Daniel family in the USA (and these days that seems to be most of them, with the exceptions of James and Joseph) have been living very comfortably in the USA for several decades now. Several of them have been, or now are, LEF trustees of some kind. They are not obtaining such a decent standard of living from the offerings of the very few people who attend their services in the USA, or elsewhere outside of India, so they must be living at the expense of people who have been supporting LEF en masse and unquestioningly. That can only have been in India (though we hear that that source of income is also diminishing, as the younger Indians realise how their parents have been duped). Since there is a limit to the amount of rupees that can be exported, how are the Daniels obtaining sufficient rupees to convert into sufficient dollars to support their family life-style? That question needs to be answered, whether or not the UK centre is in any way implicated. Incidentally, the 'few hundred pounds' you mentioned (a not inconsiderable amount to a struggling Indian in India) is still a means by which Daniel trustees are beneficiaries of the LEF UK trust.
The bungalow is one of many properties internationally about which there are questions as to ownership. It has become a valuable property. You have been told that it is regd. in the name of the centre's charity, that is, LEF in one of its forms. But whose names appear on the title deed, and what would happen to any money derived from the sale of it? Similarly who owns the Daniels' homes in the USA (which must have been paid for from offerings, since Joshua Daniel always boasted that he never received a pay check, in other words, he never earned his own living!)? We do not expect you to have answers, but these questions do need answering.
The question about compensation re the forced closure of the bookshop is generally relevant to the mysterious way in which LEF seems to manage its finances. Very little seems to be explained or above board. Nobody considers him/herself accountable to anybody except Joshua, now John, Daniel, and these men consider themselves accountable to nobody, least of all to those who finance them. Income is disguised or concealed from the average LEF attender. Compensation, if it applies, might be reasonably used to find other premises, but interested parties, those who support it in any way, should be clearly informed.
We trust that your further investigations will throw some light on all of the above.
Anonymous 7 Jan 3.23
DeleteWe have further investigated the points made in your post. It seems that you are right in saying that the mysterious £200+k amount in the Charity Commission LEF accounts was in fact listed as a deficit and not extra income. It would be wrong of us not to acknowledge this, since, unlike the Daniels we are trying to establish the truth, not to conceal it. We have not been able to check whether this outgoing amount did in fact go to LEF in Paris to buy a building, but we have currently no evidence to suggest that it did not. The other possibility is that it went to Joshua Daniel in some form, but without more detailed accounting, or an evidenced confirmation of receipt from Paris, its destination is still a little uncertain. You have suggested that the surplus income which enabled this outgoing sum could have been an amalgamation of an annual surplus over many years. On looking at the available figures, it does seem a possibility, although the LEF report states that surplus income is channelled back into stock etc., so it is not entirely clear.
We have discovered that the LEF document on which its Charity Commission eligibility is based was amended twice, in 2000 and 2009. It may be that these as yet undisclosed amendments cover the sanctioning of a trustee to be paid a salary for his video work. We correctly pointed out that no trustee should normally benefit from a trust, except by such an amendment.
Of course the moral question about this still remains: how can this worker justify taking a salary when equally diligent Indian workers are merely told to 'learn faith'?
The 'donations' of approaching £50,000 last fiscal year, and somewhat in excess of £50,000 in the year preceding, are harder to understand. We know that there are very few regular attendees at the centre meetings. Unlike genuine charities, this organisation is unlikely to receive donations from the general public, since it claims not to solicit funds in any way.
We note that in December of 2014 both Lily and John Daniel were appointed as trustees to succeed the late Joshua Daniel. They were appointed by the three German trustees remaining, long term promoters of the Daniel family (though in fairness, probably as duped as most Indians - but not the German-based ex-Daniel supporters, or the Canadians and Americans who told us here how they became wise to Joshua Daniel and ejected him). We wonder why, in the light of the questions already by then surrounding the Daniel family's manipulations of funds and power, these three trustees were so ready to appoint John and Lily to power in the UK? Perhaps they obeyed the edict never to read anything which questioned Daniel ethics, or perhaps they are too brainwashed to understand what was already coming to light, or perhaps they were subtly bullied; whatever is the case, only they had the legal power to appoint Lily and John, and they did.
The report (dated July 2015 ) which accompanies the latest figures submitted to the Charity Commission, on the other hand, seemed to go to great lengths to counter the accusations of hawala involvement in favour of the Daniels in the USA levelled at the UK centre here. There is an explanation as to the legality of the salary paid to a trustee, and an affirmation that no anonymous sums have been paid into the UK from other countries. Without a sight of the governing document amendments it is not possible to say whether they covered the giving of 'a few hundred pounds' to the Daniels (extra to their travel, board, and any medical expenses) when they visited England. They can hardly be said to provide 'essential professional services', and the normal fee for ad hoc preaching is certainly not hundreds of pounds!
As the adage says 'Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practise to deceive!'. Or when others' deceptions entangle us, LEF UK!
Anonymous 7 Jan. 3.23
DeleteUK centre ctd.
Further re the London bungalow and other valuable properties registered to LEF; you will by now have seen the Indian constitution and byelaws of LEF reproduced as the next blog on this site. You will notice that these give all the ultimate power over LEF and its assets to one man, Joshua Daniel, to manage or dispose of as he wished. It is not clear whether John Daniel has 'inherited' this control, as although his father had his exclusive power to nominate his successor written into the description of his own authority, there is some question as to whether John could legally have become president secretary in his father's stead, given that the 'religious society' known as LEF is described in that documentation as essentially 'indigenous', and John Daniel is an American citizen, which ought to disqualify him from inheriting that office in India.
As Whistleblowers have pointed out, according to the Indian constitution as photocopied here (a constitution clearly composed by Joshua Daniel for his own benefit) there was nothing to stop Joshua Daniel shutting down LEF and starting a different 'religious society' under a different name, to which all of LEF's assets could be transferred by his legal authority. That ability would be inherited by his successor, clearly intended to be his son John Daniel. It may also be why his banned eldest child, Betty Daniel, has been fighting to re-establish herself in LEF.
That is why it is important to establish legal ownership, or legal authority, for all assets regd. under LEF in one way or another. This includes those in London (and possibly any compensation achieved from LEF's enforced removal from the current and longstanding bookshop premises). It is not clear whether the power Joshua Daniel gave himself in the Indian constitution is applicable to assets outside of India, since so far the written constitutions for LEF in other countries have not yet been disclosed. It would be surprising if Joshua Daniel had not also safeguarded his control of these foreign assets by some means.
It may not be possible to stop the Daniels keeping control of, and benefiting from, the assets of LEF, but at least donors should be completely informed as to where their money is going, and what (or whom) it is actually supporting. Perhaps some will then rethink their unquestioning devotion and loyalty to the highly questionable Daniel family.
Dubious businesses do this sort of thing all the time (that is, restarting under a different name). It is a way of conserving assets if the business should be forced to cease trading, or, in the case of LEF, is made to, or decides to, cease operating.
LEF has huge assets in various countries, but probably the Indian premises are by far the most valuable. These assets were bought with the sweat (and even the blood - remember the men who were killed on their way to assist in a May retreat) of ordinary men and women duped into thinking that their tithes were going exclusively to fund God's work. The London bungalow is also assessed at a high value.
It is not right that Joshua Daniel, or anybody he delegates thereafter, should have had, or still have, control of wealth to which he and his family contributed nothing, but which has supported him and his family for many decades (and no doubt his father before him, though more modestly).
The late JD did not hide the fact that Indian money was channelled to support overseas ministries. For him it was a sort of boast, a vindication of the success of his Indian ministry.
DeleteIn light of the recent allegations raised against LEF accounting, maybe it wasn't such a spiritual success after all.
There is a difference between Indian money supporting 'overseas ministries' and Indian money supporting Joshua Daniel and his tribe overseas!
DeleteContinuing our conversation above...
DeleteBasically we have two issues at play here: church governance and financial misconduct. As previously stated, we are agreed on the issue of church governance. The finances are not made open and transparent, and neither are decisions. Financial misconduct accusations are a separate issue. There need not necessarily be an overlap between these two issues. Lack of accountability does not prove wrongdoing. The fact that we can't account for the finances of those in America, doesn't prove your assertion, and saying that this money laundering process would not leave any trace does not absolve you of having to provide evidence to prove your accusation. You started off your response saying: "If there has been no wrongdoing involving the UK centre, that needs to be plainly demonstrated". You've got that the wrong way around, it is: innocent until proven guilty. Obviously, this adage not only applies to the UK centre but any others potentially implicated by the financial misconduct accusation.
In summary, you haven't provided enough (any) evidence for me to able to investigate, or even to take this seriously at this point. What I've seen is just speculation.
To clarify a few points:
I never claimed to have seen the UK centre accounts, I've only seen the annual accounts on the Charity Commission website, as you have, and have pieced together what I know from additional questions I've asked.
I answered the question regarding the bungalow's ownership. As far as I can find out, the deed does not have any individuals' names on it. I don't know why you are asking for names, as it is possible for a deed to be in the name of a trust, assuming that it is incorporated. I believe the Charity Commission has rules regarding the sale of property owned by trusts.
And a question of my own:
What did the "Americans and Canadians" become "wise to"? Has this been posted on this blog?
Anonymous Jan 15 1.33pm
DeleteYes, there have been various posts from Americans on this site, and also on the Suniemi - Understand the truth site. Some of them date back a long way. They inform (as 'insiders') that the American and Canadian groups ejected Joshua Daniel, going back many years now. The Germans in Germany did likewise. His behaviour did not stand up to scrutiny and was not becoming to someone making the claims he did. This included bullying, using people inappropriately, deficient preaching, and question marks over money matters. Identified posters are North American, Gary Fleenor and Terry Huffman.
The copious evidence against Joshua Daniel is on both sites. It was suggested as much as a year ago that Joshua Daniel was using the UK centre in association with hawala transactions to have money from India conveyed to the USA. There are restrictions on the transfer of rupees in cash out of India, and bank transfer would incur considerable fees etc. Lack of proper accounting by the UK centre, and its general coyness about money matters and the Daniels, made its involvement seem a possibility. Moreover nobody from the UK centre has responded to these questions, which does not help. The Daniels have not answered the accusations made by many here either. They are unwilling to be accountable, and this implicates all their supporters both in and outside of India.
Joshua Daniel boasted that he 'never had a paycheck'. However he had a wife and five children to support. He travelled extensively and in comfort. He owned a number of cars, including vintage cars. He owned his homes, and someone paid his children's schooling, and the family's medical expenses. He chose to live in the USA, rather than his native land, which increased his living expenses dramatically. His 'doctorate' appears to have been purchased rather than earned. Now John Daniel appears to be living off the same means. He has been out of work for some years. He also has a wife and five children to support, who sometimes accompany him on his trips. He has a recording facility (not cheap) which he uses to produce his children's CDs (the quality of their performance makes these not commercially viable except to LEF people).
Everyone asks, how have the Daniels been living as they do if the parents have never worked? Is it on money extracted mainly from Indians who have been subjected to spiritual bullying to 'tithe' by the Daniels? There may be some income from the few non-Indian centres, but not enough to support the Daniel lifestyle. This site is not just to amuse disgruntled LEF people. Do you seriously want to get to the bottom of this, or do you just want to showcase your superior deductive powers?
There has been plenty of evidence to confirm that Joshua Daniel and his henchmen played on the trust and naivity of his followers over decades. It is known that the Germans connected with the UK centre are completely under the influence of the Daniels, and therefore have been in danger of being used. Blank cheques have been presented for signature elsewhere, for example. Brother Sathy, a decent, honourable man who sincerely loves the Lord, was very active in LEF until he discovered the misdeeds of the Daniels and others. He spoke plainly to Joshua Daniel, who ignored him (as he did anyone who sought to remonstrate), so with sadness Sathy left LEF. You can read his letter reproduced with his permission earlier on this site.
If the UK centre is genuinely innocent of involvement in, or condoning by failure to investigate, LEF misdeeds, then its 'team' must confront the Daniels and join the thousands who are trying to get to the bottom of all the disgraces that, without a doubt, characterise LEF. Otherwise the London people will not escape the veil of suspicion that hangs over them, and any witness to Christ they attempt will eventually be useless.
Can someone throw light on successful love marriages happend in LEF by influencing the board members/LEF politicians ?? were those performed by late JD unknowingly ?? !!
ReplyDeleteHow can I become board member.
ReplyDeleteSuggestions welcome :-)
Please tell me anything other than doing the below listed stuff.
1. Being a chamcha
2. Lying
3.Cheating government, people and own family members
4. Adultery
5. Threatening others
6.Phone tapping
7.False accounts
8. All illegal activities
Commenter December 18, 2015 6:34 AM you missed out crucial qualities.
DeleteBe a relative of LD .Being a relative of the late JD does not help.
Give a lot of money to the lady living in South Lyon,Michigan.
She does not live in South Lyon now. Betty Daniel sold that home a while back. No idea what happened to the proceeds (original capital provided by LEF offerings) but John Daniel lives in a substantial house in Northville, which was remortgaged a few years ago. Question: if John Daniel bought that house from his then earnings (which would have been the honest thing to do), who has been paying the reduced (?) mortgage since he became unemployed, as they still live there. If Lily lives with them, are the proceeds from the sale of the South Lyon house now paying the mortgage of John Daniel's home?
DeleteIf John Daniel did not buy the Northville house from earnings, how could he justify living off LEF offerings whilst he was working? According to his father Joshua Daniel's boasts from the platform, he was some kind of big shot in General Motors (a gross exaggeration, it seems).
Perhaps Betty Daniel can tell us to whom was paid the equity from the South Lyon house? After all, she was very quick to tell us that that house was worth less than reported here, that she knows because she herself sold it.
What has Lydia Daniel contributed to the Daniel coffers? Has she ever worked? Who is supporting her in her forties? We read that John Daniel is not looking for paid work, but for places on non-profit boards, or consulting. So does he anticipate living off LEF offerings, he and his large family, for the rest of his life? Does he think that his pathetic 'preaching', emanating from lack of study, training, knowledge, or understanding, totally ungifted and lacking in any power to feed the large LEF 'flock', justifies him and his family becoming permanent liabilities on the diminishing resources of LEF incomes? We assume that Betty lives off the proceeds of her real estate company (although judging by the dreadful reviews of it on the internet, she can't have many customers!), and the offerings or stipend related to her husband's church. However we read here of certain 'pay-offs' to her by the Daniels in the past, but that now she is seeking a legal means of re-inserting herself back into the LEF cash cow run by her mother, brother, and sister (not to mention a share of the many properties bought by the Daniels from LEF money whose actual legal ownership is shrouded in mystery).
When groups of believers support workers financially, it is done by the majority vote of the potential supporters, and those supporters determine how much is needed by each worker. Which group of LEF supporters voted to support, full-time, any member of the Daniel family?
What a muddled situation. Why cannot the Daniels be honest about these arrangements? Were there any concrete resolutions, or did they all just pay their hawala expert to get the rupees out of India and over to the USA via their dupes in the UK or some other foreign country?
PLEASE STOP GIVING TO CENTRES, AND IF POSSIBLE TRY TO DISCOVER THE LEGAL DOCUMENTATION FOR EACH PROPERTY. MONEY GIVEN TO GOD SHOULD NOT BE SPENT ON UNACCOUNTABLE PARASITES.
Hello Commenter December 18, 2015 1:51 PM
DeleteI strongly disagree with the contents of passage -2 of your comment.Whatever JD said from the pulpits about his sons were a bunch of lies .It was not exaggeration .
//If John Daniel did not buy the Northville house from earnings, how could he justify living off LEF offerings whilst he was working? According to his father Joshua Daniel's boasts from the platform, he was some kind of big shot in General Motors (a gross exaggeration, it seems).//
Anonymous 18 Dec. 4.18pm
DeleteI am more than happy to accept that Joshua Daniel in fact lied from the platform about his son John's illustrious 'career'! One of LEF's more ardent supporters once conveyed to me that he was impressed that John Daniel gave up so much of his time to preach, and that his employers must rate him very highly to allow him to be absent from his employment so much in order to visit India etc.
It seems that the truth was that John Daniel's employers didn't rate him much at all, and were probably quite glad of a reason to be able to get rid of him completely!
JD boasted that his son was a Vice President with General Motors and lied that JJD had even met Deng Xiaping. Later it came out that JJD was working in a casting company which was one among the 100000 companies which supplied to GM. Later JJD was sent out from this company also. The logic of the LEF bootlicker is pathetic but it is true that LEF bootlickers loose their brain. I want to ask " Which company Boss will allow his star performer to take leave" Mine wont allow. Let there be a limit on lying and defrauding by the JD tribe
DeleteProphet Elisha asked Prophet “I want a double portion of your spirit” (Foolish fellow, he was not asking for money or wealth, not a grabby type, in real effect he was asking him, please consider me as your son, Ok first born, It was not a demand for authority but only for spiritual strength) Prophet Elijah replied “You have asked a hard thing” Hard even for Prophet Elijah who raised the dead.
DeleteSimilarly, your request is very hard, however I will tell you some methods used by clever people in the LEF.
1. Marry in the LEF JD family, one vacancy is available. 100 % of your felt and unfelt needs would be taken care of. (one word of Information: The mother of one of the boys who was pressed to be hooked to the girl, on seeing the daughter told: “if my son marries her, he can forget married life”. Astonishing prediction, 100 % true.
2. Ask your wife / daughters to pray in a loud voice” Lord we thank thee for the ministry of the Daniel grand and great grandchildren. As they preach in the continents, countries, mountains, rivers, lakes, seas, islands, may thy spirit beat up all into submission. No one is equal to them…. Etc .. Your prayer would be noticed. And things will happen
3. Just stand near them and always say “Yes Brother, Yes brother” The Lord has revealed this to you
4. Find their travel plans and book in the same Airline, wait in the Airport and wangle a seat next to them. Carry their luggage, salute and roll on the ground. They may notice you and say “Hello”, whether you talk or not you can come out and brag that you talked with them. (This was actually done by a great man)
5. Give money to them, never ask from them anything.
6. try try, keep on buttering, something will work out, good luck
Re Joshua Daniel lying about his son John Daniel's employment:
DeleteI seem to remember that Joshua Daniel lied about this with John Daniel present, as in the later years John Daniel and his large family accompanied Joshua and Lily Daniel to certain European retreats.
One wonders why John Daniel allowed this......no good insisting on tradesman travelling back to your house so that you can boast to LEF people about your 'honesty', John, if you are a willing and visible party to your father's lies!
In the midst of suited and coated rich young kids, who never worked a single day, but are so rich, fashionable and oh so spiritual, who never faced a soul killing burden, of the LEF robber family, I wanted a Christmas message, I got one to share with you (Not from the kids). In St. Luke’s gospel we read of Anna the prophetess and Old Simeon, who rejoiced at the presentation of our Lord as a baby in the Great synagogue at Jerusalem. Ok who were they? St. Luke informs that Anna was a widow, what was her age, (1) She was eight four years old (2) She was married at the age of around 12, lived with her husband for 7 years and a widow for 84 years (12+7+84 = 103) (3) She was a widow for 84 years. She was an old, support less person, no doubt feeling the effects of age on her frail body, most possibly she was a lonely person. Same was with old man Simeon, who prophesied with exceptional accuracy some 33 years ago and told Mary mother of the Lord, “ A Sword shall pierce your heart”. The sword did not physically pierce the mother but her Son. She felt the pain. In spite of all their difficulties in this life these people could rejoice at the Savior’s birth. So Jesus whose birth we celebrate in Christmas day is available to give Joy, Peace and Happiness to the lonely, sad, pained, recluse, orphaned, lonely, poor, sick, old and young as He lives today. Wishing all of you such a Happy Christmas.
ReplyDeleteWhen i look back at the year that is coming to a close soon (2015) I feel one of the best things we have seen is the advent of LEF Whistleblower.You are the voice of all LEF churchgoers.We are proud of you.Thank you very much.
ReplyDeleteSometime back one of my friends was telling me that reading whistleblower is more important than reading the morning news paper.He further added tha it would have good if whistleblowers had started when JD was alive.
Anonymous December 21, 2015 7:50 AM, you are spot on with this. I wish too like you that we started this blog activity before Joshua Daniel died. It is just that, I one of the bloggers had nothing to do with LEF or its leaders for over 16 years. I walked out of LEF as a 24 year young woman in 1998 for good and never thought that I would ever have to look back on this filth and never imagined that I would cross paths with this God forsaken Daniel family. Joshua Daniel ( may his soul rest in peace, may be not) waited for 16 long years to show his serpent head to strike back at our family few months before he died (March, 2014). It took some time for me to regroup and re-evaluate to get on this mission of exposing the dark deeds of Joshua Daniel and his cohorts. As lucky as Joshua Daniel was, death came to rescue him from learning what people thought of him and his great ministry. Yes, you said it right. We should have started this when Joshua Daniel was alive. May be, perhaps may be he would've done something to clean the muck before he left this earth to "redeem his own soul" so that he could have peace for eternity. I sincerely doubt if this man Joshua Daniel reached the "place" that thousands of LEF people believe he reached seeing the kind of evil he did or allowed to be done in LEF while lording over LEF for 70 + years. But then heaven is believed to be a place of "wonder" and filled with many "surprises." We all have to patiently wait to end our journey on earth to find out if Joshua Daniel is really in the place that he claimed to sell entry "tickets" to.
ReplyDeleteIn fact the 'Understand the Truth -Suniemi' blog was started before JD died, and continues to be another useful tool in understanding why LEF and the Daniels are as corrupt as they now are. Suniemi gives essential historical background information and sound theological analysis. He has gone to the trouble of reproducing those parts of a book written by a German professor ( an assessment of the allegedly evangelical groups of South India) which relate to LEF. The author studied Joshua Daniel and his organisation, LEF, some decades ago, and interviewed him personally. His findings and impressions even then gave cause for concern. He noted, amongst other anomalies, the luxuriousness of Joshua Daniel's office and accomodation in Chennai, compared to the poor conditions of those who worked for him in 'ministry'.
DeleteThose interested in WB blog should also read 'Understand the Truth -Suniemi', if they have not already done so.
It is encouraging that so many people, and especially younger people, are now determining not to allow the Daniels and the LEF to dominate their lives, or the lives of their families. This is largely because Suniemi and Whistleblowers have broken the silence about known abuses which was, and is, insisted upon by the Daniels on pain of (fictitious!) spiritual and other kinds of retribution.
To know more about Suniemi's observations on LEF please visit https://suniemi.wordpress.com/
DeleteIn fact some people said during JD's funeral that he was disturbed and could not sleep. He used to shout loud due to pain. Ofcourse IC's case was a shock to him in his last days. The problem with LEF leaders big or small is hypocrisy. If any person hides a small thing then they kill him but they hide their misdeeds, mistakes of themselves and their leaders like late JD, gunalan, IC etc. Even they don't discuss openly about them. They afraid of their position and what kind of small g god's men these are?
DeleteSurely Joshua Daniel must have been fully aware of the misdeeds of Immanuel Chakravathi long before his deathbed? Everyone else seems to have been, including his refrigerator-healing elder daughter, Betty....and Joshua Daniel was no fool when it came to issues of money and power. The general view seems to be that Joshua Daniel knew exactly what he was doing when he entrusted so much to a cunning person like Chakravarthy. Who better than another scoundrel to look after his ill-gotten gains?
DeleteI would like to think that his distress on his deathbed was due to the pain of his conscience, as well as of his body, and that in the end he responded to those promptings and repented before it was too late for him.
Hello Whistleblower!!
DeleteIf there is a doubt on top person’s eternity, where is the hope for LEF goers?? O my God!! They strongly hope that there is a reserved place in heaven separately for LEF people; the people already reached there can put some hankies for present LEF goers!!
Hello LEF goers!! Re-think and do understand that your own deeds decide your destiny!! None can take you to heaven. all these preachers are just meant to build faith in personal. Unfortunately faith is no more in LEF, just these people are meant for running profit organization in the name of non-profit organization..
They are doing Bill less business. Money transactions are in Black. They never show/ release account statement. Dear person where is your hard earned money being spent in this organization. Is it for the rich man to make him richest?? What about the poor people around you?? Ask God, he will choose you to spend your money for His will.
They come with a big red bag to grab your weekly offering & tithes. But, when you reach them for a prayed request on burden they will not care you. They will not touch you if you want to give a shake hand. But, they will touch your money to spend for their comforts.
Find some other preachers in your place, who are ready to stay & pray with you when you are in trouble. Find a person who asks your service to God not your money
Jesus is coming soon. Judgment is there. Quit going LEF. No Assurance. No Excuse. You are already warned by Whistle Blower.
Can anyone enlighten about how marriages are done in this organisation..as i have seen my friends marriages conducted in totally unbiblical way...godman joshua decides his will...if you dont obey..you are thrown out cursed..now his son (someone said his IQ is less than room temperature) is following the same...making girlswait till late 35s..and even discourage family life after marriage....is it true...
ReplyDeleteMarriages will be done in LEF by ensuring the below criteria.
DeleteBlack boy matched with White girl.
White boy matched with Black girl.
Short boy matched with long girl.
Long boy matched with short girl.
Thin boy matched with stout girl.
Stout boy matched with thin girl.
One observation is that none of the present evangelists have send their children to bible school nor placed them in john's hand..because they already went through mental turmoil before marriage...waiting for long hours infront of daniels..retreat after retreat..some stood with tears for 15-18years..everytime they were denied..with some excuse or some simple complaint against them.they left their jobs and came..but those who are doing secular jobs were always prefered and respected..i can challenge none of the present lef bible students will send their children to bible school...why is this happening..?should we not make people glad to send their children to us...they feel insecure helpless cannot speak with daniels..and had to wait for someperson whom they chose to marry our kid..very rarely 2-3have come, but now having very bitter experiences, they feel detached emotionally..just for the sake of parents and marriage they are still there..some daringly left..God spared them from daniels
DeleteRecently one girl who was there in hq for 6yrs went to see LD asking my younger sister is getting married, my father is troubling me and beating my mother for sending me..how many more years will you pray and i have to wait for my marriage...astonishing reply was that...when did you come to hq i thought u r very new..very pathetic situation..they dont even know who are bibke students and their names..what are they praying for..yeats together...
At about christmastime 56 years back the the late JD married LD.While JD always spoke against love marriages JD's marriage itself is something for people to analyse and understand.I am quoting what was mentioned in the biography of his dad and JD's autobiographies.
DeleteJD was driving a car and saw LD crossing the road and it seems the lord spoke to him that he has to marry her.So the proposal was discussed and agreed between LD's mom and JD's parents.
LD had sisters to be married so JD and LD waited for some time and later got married during the Christmas vacation at Christ Church,Mount Road .(JD did not get married in any LEF prayer hall).
JD got engaged and courted for about 2 years and then married LD.
Questions:
Did JD a Telugu Reddy marry a Tamil Nadar Doctor (daughter of a respected Engg College Professor) because it was the lord's will.
Was it ethically right on JD and his parents to propose marriage to LD when there was an older sister who was not married during the proposal?.
If some one had seen a girl on the road and liked her /loved her and got married by mutual consent wouldn't the couple be branded as people who fell for the lust of the eyes and the flesh?
Conclusion:JD's marriage to LD was a strategic decision .The late 50's saw the exodus of many christian Nadars from southern tamilnadu to Chennai.After this proposal was clinched many people joined LEF.Dr.Vijaysingh and many more hi profile nadars joined LEF.JD was very calculative and weighed all options and married someone above him in social status and his marriage to a doctor made him an ICON.Those days a commoner marrying a doctor lady was spectacular .
JD messed up the lives of many women doctors forcing them to marry lesser qualified Bible College Students and laid the foundation for many failure marriages.I will write more on that later.
Joshua Daniel is not a Reddy. Somebody did a little bit of research on Daniel family and found out that N. Daniel came from the lowest rungs of Indian caste hierarchy but Devenamma Daniel seems to have had some roots from Telugu bourgeois community. But definitely neither Joshua Daniel nor his ancestors were born with silver spoon as some are made to believe in LEF
DeleteThis is another dirty can of worms that we delayed opening. The floor is open for people to throw some light on this.
ReplyDeleteAt this time of a year when we yearn and pray for peace i do not wish to open a can of worms (marriage).I will write a lot about how JD and family destroyed families after christmas.I wish all the readers of Whistleblower and the bloggers a Blessed Christmas.I hope you guys will give LEF the boot on Christmas Day and attend your Christmas worship elsewhere.Please don't waste time in LEF.
DeleteIn LEF JD and many evangelists enforced their thinking on marriages & alliances based on their assessment saying that it was god's will.This was happening from the 1960's till about 2010.I will explain it like this.
ReplyDeletea)The parents of a girl who worships in LEF will speak to the local evangelist about their daughter who is to be married and would seek their help in identifying suitable partners.
b)The Evangelist would respond Ok Brother we will pray about it and i will ask brother joe .
c)The parents wait patiently for Joe to favourably respond.The evangelist would get to meet Joe during the Summer Retreat ,Students Retreat or in a Revival meeting.
d)Joe would weigh all factors and his first option would be to marry the girl to a Bible College Student.
e) If there were grooms in secular professions who sought prospective alliances those where identified as chosen few for JD's immediate circle of friends and relatives.
f)The Girl and the Guy will be intimated by the evangelist or JD as the groom /bride chosen by god and they would be asked to pray and find the will of God.
g)If there is no will of God they will be treated as disobedient people who dared to defy the will of God(will of JD).
h)In most situations those who rejected a proposal are not given a second chance .
i)There would a few few young people who would get a second chanced if they reject option B then they are treated as disobedient people.
j)The point to be noted here is that even if you get married you would end up marrying only after you have crossed the ideal years for marriage (27 for grooms and 23 for girls).
Marriage is over and then reality begins to strike in .
The couple realise that they do not have any compatibility and thats when problems begin.Now it is time for LEF to step in.
a)The LEF Evangelist and his wife the Nosey people poke their nose to understand the problem.
b)This problem becomes a prayer burden and people pray over it loudly in the mid week prayer meetings and fasting & prayer causing a lot of embarrassment to the couple and to their families.
c)As time progresses the couple bury their differences and learn to live in Harmony .So this becomes the success story of LEF marriages and people say that Bro.Joe prayed and counselled them.
(or)
Problems continue but children are born and children are raised in a conflict zone where they are witness to parents who have nothing in common .The only thing that is common is LEF faith.Children grow up not knowing what it is to live in a happy home and when it is time for them to marry they end up doing the same mistakes done by their parents.
I have witnessed many bad marriages of Fellowshipers who were/whose parents were big financial contributors to LEF during my association with the Organization.
I would strongly advise any person who wishes to get married to make their choices after prayer and careful consideration of all ground realities .Dont rush in to marriage.It is good to get married but it is important to get married to the right person.
Some classic cases of marriages brokered by JD with his evangelists using their fuzzy logic (God's will)in LEF.I will try my best to keep it as discreet as possible.
ReplyDeleteThe objective of my comment is to warn people against marrying in the LEF framework (God's will enforcement)
a) A Bible College Student and a Doctor were married as JD felt it was God's will.They served after the marriage setting up a gospel clinic and LEF centre in God's own country.They had children but split up.
b) A Bible College Student from South Tamilnadu married an Andhra Evangelist's daughter as JD felt it was God's will.Two years after the marriage the girl died leaving a baby.JD brokered marriage -2 for this person with a girl from north east.After some time this evangelist broke away from LEF and set up his own centre carrying away a sizeable number of the congregation.
c)A gentleman from the Temple Town of Tamilnadu was working in the Capital of India.He was asked to marry a Nursing Professional who was senior to him in age (5 or 6 years).He married and had children of the marriage.He was very closely associated with JD but later politics took toll on his relationship with JD and he quit LEF.
d)There was a worship leader who worked in the capital of Telangana and hailed from the capital of Tamilnadu.He was asked to marry a Bihari Girl who was not medically fit for marriage.The marriage was solemnised by JD in the National Capital and the marriage failed.The marriage ended in a divorce but now i hear that the gentleman has married again and is in ministry outside LEF.
e) There was a very nice family from the capital of Tamilnadu who as a family gave their time,treasure and talent to LEF throughout the year.Their older daughter was married to an LEF Evangelist trainee.They married and moved to the North East.The girl developed medical complications and died.The LEF Evangelist trainee now an evangelist married again (brokered and moderated by JD)and has moved out of full time ministry into a secular job .
Friends i warn you.Marriage is an event which must happen only once in lifetime.You should not look at marriage as Lizard did (Changing husbands frequently).Please pray and make the right choices.If you are unhappy over your marriage pray to god and ask for his intervention.Dont allow your evangelist or the goonda family room to interfere in your life.
Among all the organizations, I personally know, no other organization interferes in the marriage of 2 individuals as much as the LEF does. Again the technique of God's will is used and it is so strange that so many people submitted to this prank.
ReplyDeleteAs always I find the Roman Church to be ideal. I got married in the Holy Catholic Church. Marriage is a Sacrament and it is irrevocable as per the teaching of the Church. Candidates have to undergo marriage counselling sessions for 3 days generally Fri, Sat, Sun. About 15 sessions are covered on varied topics by priests, psychiatrists, doctors and experienced counsellors. Topics are varied and includes God, the Biblical teaching on Marriage, Christ, His Relationship with the Church which is a metaphor of a Husband and a Wife, the Holy Spirit, His Aid and Counsel, Physiological topics which was dealt by reputed doctors, psychiatrists who had immense experience in marriage counselling, games and fun activities to teach practical aspects of marriage, differences the thought process between men and women, financial aspects, how to run the family, the extended family, our role in the Church, to the Church, to society, to the Government, etc.
Believe me, they did not leave any topic untouched. The final session was dealt by a priest and this is what He said. "You are going to get married. You have chosen your partners and desire to get married in the Catholic Church. We as priests will solemnize your wedding and pray for you. We will counsel you whenever you come to us. But your marriage is in your hands. It is upto you to make it or break it. Think hard, think well. Never take it lightly. Finally it is all in your hands. We wish you well. Have a happy, prosperous, Christ-centred marriage."
Wedding bans will have to be read. The parish priest of both partners' will have to do some scrutiny and background check of the individual. Background check is limited to that parish and whether or not the candidate has fradulently married before. Then the Baptism, Confirmation certificates are checked and the priest verifies if the candidate has been a regular communicant of the Church.
Non-Christians can marry Catholics and if they want to do so, then they have to pledge that they will raise their children in the Catholic faith and initiate all the sacraments for their children. If they do not agree, then the Church will not permit them to get married in the CHurch solemnized by a priest.
The Catholic Church does not select our partners. No priest does it. Then they teach all the concepts-theological, Biblical and the secular aspects of financial and investing and so on. That is the key difference. LEF selected partners whereas the RCC never does that. They run marriage bureas for people to register and select. But they never select partners under any logic or technique. It is so sad to see the way LEF conducted weddings with such illogic and impractical ways, ruining the life of so many individuals. Those are things that people have to check. People lazily yielded to the leaders here and lived in a fantasy thinking, "God's will will cover everything." Isn't that ignorance and stupidity to blindly trust some religious leader? The RCC's format is what I believe as how the Apostles handled the marriage issue in the first century. The Apostles were not doing marriage broker work saying, that boy for this girl and so on. Why did the LEF muddle with this and why did the people give them room to muddle with it?
The RC church does not 'allow' divorce, but if people are rich enough, they can buy an 'annulment' (divorce by another name in this case). Having lived in an RC-dominated country I can bear first-hand witness to this. In fact money donated can exempt wealthy Roman Catholics from almost any papal or other edict. RC priests are not allowed to marry (unless they are converts from Anglicanism and already have wives), which is an unbiblical edict and probably relevant to the sexual abuse of children and young people by priests, recently uncovered.
DeleteI mention these facts merely to point out that it is probably better to make comparisons between LEF practice and actual scripture, rather than between LEF practice and RC practice/dogma.