Wednesday, December 23, 2015

THIS IS ABOUT MARRIAGES IN LEF...

We wanted to open the floor for people to throw some light on LEF marriage system. Please keep the discussions healthy. A lot of LEF youngsters are reading this blog regularly. Please contribute wisely so that our youngsters who are awaiting marriages are benefited by this discussion. Here is the consolidation of some of the comments on the this topic.
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Marriages will be done in LEF by ensuring the below criteria.
Black boy matched with White girl.
White boy matched with Black girl.
Short boy matched with long girl.
Long boy matched with short girl.
Thin boy matched with stout girl.
Stout boy matched with thin girl.

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At about christmastime 56 years back the the late Joshua Daniel married Lily Daniel.While At about christmastime 56 years back the the late Joshua Daniel  always spoke against love marriages At about christmastime 56 years back the the late Joshua Daniel's marriage itself is something for people to analyse and understand.I am quoting what was mentioned in the biography of his dad and At about Christmas time 56 years back the the late Joshua Daniel 's autobiographies.
At about Christmas time 56 years back the the late Joshua Daniel  was driving a car and saw Lily Daniel crossing the road and it seems the lord spoke to him that he has to marry her.So the proposal was discussed and agreed between Lily Daniel's mom and Joshua Daniel's parents.
Lily Daniel had sisters to be married so Joshua Daniel and LD waited for some time and later got married during the Christmas vacation at Christ Church,Mount Road .(JD did not get married in any LEF prayer hall).
Joshua Daniel got engaged and courted for about 2 years and then married Lily Daniel.
Questions:
Did Joshua Daniel a Telugu Reddy marry a Tamil Nadar Doctor (daughter of a respected Engg College Professor) because it was the lord's will?
Was it ethically right for Joshua Daniel and his parents to propose marriage to Lily Daniel when there was an older sister who was not married during the proposal?.
If some one had seen a girl on the road and liked her /loved her and got married by mutual consent wouldn't the couple be branded as people who fell for the lust of the eyes and the flesh?
Conclusion:Joshua Daniel's marriage to Lily Daniel was a strategic decision .The late 50's saw the exodus of many christian Nadars from southern Tamilnadu to Chennai.After this proposal was clinched many people joined LEF. Dr.Vijaysingh and many more high profile nadars joined LEF. Joshua Daniel was very calculative and weighed all options and married someone above him in social status and his marriage to a doctor made him an ICON.Those days a commoner marrying a doctor lady was spectacular .
JD messed up the lives of many women doctors forcing them to marry lesser qualified Bible College Students and laid the foundation for many failure marriages.I will write more on that later.
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Joshua Daniel is not a Reddy. Somebody did a little bit of research on Daniel family and found out that N. Daniel came from the lowest rungs of Indian caste hierarchy but Devenamma Daniel seems to have had some roots from Telugu bourgeois community. But definitely neither Joshua Daniel nor his ancestors were born with silver spoon as some are made to believe in LEF
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In LEF JD and many evangelists enforced their thinking on marriages & alliances based on their assessment saying that it was god's will.This was happening from the 1960's till about 2010.I will explain it like this.

a)The parents of a girl who worships in LEF will speak to the local evangelist about their daughter who is to be married and would seek their help in identifying suitable partners.

b)The Evangelist would respond Ok Brother we will pray about it and i will ask brother joe .

c)The parents wait patiently for Joe to favourably respond.The evangelist would get to meet Joe during the Summer Retreat ,Students Retreat or in a Revival meeting.

d)Joe would weigh all factors and his first option would be to marry the girl to a Bible College Student.

e) If there were grooms in secular professions who sought prospective alliances those where identified as chosen few for JD's immediate circle of friends and relatives.

f)The Girl and the Guy will be intimated by the evangelist or JD as the groom /bride chosen by god and they would be asked to pray and find the will of God.
g)If there is no will of God they will be treated as disobedient people who dared to defy the will of God(will of JD).
h)In most situations those who rejected a proposal are not given a second chance .
i)There would a few few young people who would get a second chanced if they reject option B then they are treated as disobedient people.
j)The point to be noted here is that even if you get married you would end up marrying only after you have crossed the ideal years for marriage (27 for grooms and 23 for girls).
Marriage is over and then reality begins to strike in .
The couple realise that they do not have any compatibility and thats when problems begin.Now it is time for LEF to step in.
a)The LEF Evangelist and his wife the Nosey people poke their nose to understand the problem.
b)This problem becomes a prayer burden and people pray over it loudly in the mid week prayer meetings and fasting & prayer causing a lot of embarrassment to the couple and to their families.
c)As time progresses the couple bury their differences and learn to live in Harmony .So this becomes the success story of LEF marriages and people say that Bro.Joe prayed and counselled them.
(or)
Problems continue but children are born and children are raised in a conflict zone where they are witness to parents who have nothing in common .The only thing that is common is LEF faith.Children grow up not knowing what it is to live in a happy home and when it is time for them to marry they end up doing the same mistakes done by their parents.
I have witnessed many bad marriages of Fellowshipers who were/whose parents were big financial contributors to LEF during my association with the Organization.
I would strongly advise any person who wishes to get married to make their choices after prayer and careful consideration of all ground realities .Dont rush in to marriage.It is good to get married but it is important to get married to the right person.
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Some classic cases of marriages brokered by JD with his evangelists using their fuzzy logic (God's will)in LEF.I will try my best to keep it as discreet as possible.
The objective of my comment is to warn people against marrying in the LEF framework (God's will enforcement)
a) A Bible College Student and a Doctor were married as JD felt it was God's will.They served after the marriage setting up a gospel clinic and LEF centre in God's own country.They had children but split up.
b) A Bible College Student from South Tamilnadu married an Andhra Evangelist's daughter as JD felt it was God's will.Two years after the marriage the girl died leaving a baby.JD brokered marriage -2 for this person with a girl from north east.After some time this evangelist broke away from LEF and set up his own centre carrying away a sizeable number of the congregation.
c)A gentleman from the Temple Town of Tamilnadu was working in the Capital of India.He was asked to marry a Nursing Professional who was senior to him in age (5 or 6 years).He married and had children of the marriage.He was very closely associated with JD but later politics took toll on his relationship with JD and he quit LEF.
d)There was a worship leader who worked in the capital of Telangana and hailed from the capital of Tamilnadu.He was asked to marry a Bihari Girl who was not medically fit for marriage.The marriage was solemnised by JD in the National Capital and the marriage failed.The marriage ended in a divorce but now i hear that the gentleman has married again and is in ministry outside LEF.
e) There was a very nice family from the capital of Tamilnadu who as a family gave their time,treasure and talent to LEF throughout the year.Their older daughter was married to an LEF Evangelist trainee.They married and moved to the North East.The girl developed medical complications and died.The LEF Evangelist trainee now an evangelist married again (brokered and moderated by JD)and has moved out of full time ministry into a secular job .
Friends i warn you.Marriage is an event which must happen only once in lifetime.You should not look at marriage as Lizard did (Changing husbands frequently).Please pray and make the right choices.If you are unhappy over your marriage pray to god and ask for his intervention.Don't allow your evangelist or the goonda family room to interfere in your life.
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26 comments:

  1. DEAR WHISTLEBLOWER, WHATEVER YOU WROTE IS TRUE BUT SOME MARRIAGES ARE GOOD EVEN TILL DATE, WHAT WILL U TELL ABOUT THOSE SUCCESSFUL MARRIAGES? SAME LATE JD ONLY SOLEMNIZED THOSE MARRIAGES, EVERYTHING IS ACCORDING TO THEIR BELIEF AND TRUST ON GOD, I REALLY ACCEPT YOUR WARNINGS, ITS GOOD, EVEN I UNDERWENT SOME SITUATIONS LIKE THIS FROM MY LOCAL PASTOR IN LEF, ALSO MY FAMILY MEMBERS, RELATIVES. MY QUESTION IS WHAT WILL YOU TELL ABOUT THE FAMILIES ARE HAPPY AND TRUTHFUL TO GOD EVEN TODAY WHICH WAS CONDUCTED BY LATE JD AND HIS GROUPS?

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    1. Anonymous December 24th 6:31. Don't underestimate the damages done by lef in the lives of so many young people (now old or even no more ) you don't seem to understand the sufferings of parents whose daughters remained spinsters due to the cultist teachings of lef.if u had experienced such pains in your life u would not write as if everything is fine. In our culture parents have a responsibility in settling their daughters
      How can jd snatch away the rights of parents even Christian parents in settling their daughters in marriage.There are so many cases of forced marriages ,where jd played a major role in settling the daughters of his close aides much to the dissatisfaction of the groom or his parents I think this is a open secret in lef.

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  2. I remember Late br.Joe comments on caste are as follows
    1. Reddy (gaddi)
    2. Kamma (nimma)

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    1. Anonymous On 24 december 2015, at 06:31 AM.

      You typed in all caps. Looks like you are a mouthpiece of lef and it shows like you are angry.

      Cool Down! The damages are more than the success here.

      Marriages are supposed to last for ever. Not to be broken. Be it in any religion or any denomination. No one will be boasting like you if a marriage life is successful. Only people with very less success percentage will have to be saying see here and see there we have set up happy families.

      No one is worried about the happy lot. What about the broken marriages and the troubled ones.

      You have to grow up. Dont you have sence to make such a comment.

      Even if its one marriage that is conducted and if its not healthy Lef is solely responsible.

      Even Jesus was worried only after that one lost sheep. You are having guts to type to about happy marriages ?

      Seriously it can't get more worse than this.

      I'm afraid if all the people start about marriages in lef here... I'm sure ull have no where to hide. You can mark my words.

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    2. How is calling people names based on their caste origins make the great Bro. Joe some kind of a legend? People in LEF take pride in shameless things and think this Bro. Joe is some kind of a legend as he got up on stage to insult people. At the most, Joe can be given credit for being a stand up comedian who used his idiotic sense of humor to make people chuckle with his venomous and sarcastic name calling.

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    3. And his son John learned well from him.

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  3. I agree the point by "December 24, 2015 6:31 AM", success of marriage is dependent on individual and issue is everywhere. In general individuals looks for same group/clan/cast/economic background/education which automatically would give required comparability and understanding for individuals coming together in marriage and for their family. Jesus didn't come to change our custom rather his call is to FOLLOW him, my feeling is LEF should just focus more or tracing what is to follow Jesus rather police individuals to see if they are following.

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  4. Something interesting happened a while back to one of the Whistleblower commenters who is both elderly and a non-Indian. The commenter dared to question the validity of something that Betty Daniel had written on Facebook about her father. Betty Daniel (as is her custom) blocked the commenter, but not before Betty Daniel had written, erroneously, on Facebook that the commenter was 'a whistleblower living in England who hates my guts (!)' The commenter had in fact never met Betty Daniel.

    However what was relevant to this topic was that Betty Daniel went on to write that in her opinion the (hostile) commenter was someone whose marriage her parents had arranged, or tried to arrange.

    Clearly Betty Daniel is aware that there must be many unhappy people who bear strong grudges against Lily and Joshua Daniel for insisting that they marry people who have predictably made them unhappy in such unions. Why else would that be the first thing that came into Betty Daniel's mind when she came across what she felt was hostility towards her parents?

    If their eldest child is aware of, and publicly indicates, the extent of the damage done by Daniel-dictated marriages, then the evil perpetrated by them must indeed be widespread! Why did neither of their daughters become victims of their parents' marriage-brokering 'skills'? Had they seen too much misery to want to submit to them? Is that what dictated their current situations, one into her third marriage, the other still single in her mid-forties?

    There are some LEF-brokered marriages which have survived and still seem comparatively happy, but as has been pointed out above, there seems to be a high volume which have not, or where the couple and their children are living unhappily. That clearly indicates (yet again) that Joshua Daniel's claim to be the messenger of God in such matters is a fraudulent one.

    Incidentally, the commenter alleged by Betty Daniel to be an angry victim of her parents' monomanic marriage brokering was nothing of the sort, but well-known to me as a concerned onlooker to the unfolding disgraces associated with LEF who is in fact old enough to be Betty's parent.

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  5. You will notice that all the blue eyed boys and girls tied the knot with famous and rich ones. It depends how deep you become chamcha or slave to JD & his henchmen you will get GOoD girl or boy otherwise as mentioned in this blog you will get a mismatch. I know one family in Vizag who always feeds and wash the feet of the center leader (I'm not calling him as god's servant because his god JD is dead) so their daughter who just joined the bible college in BG (most say shortcut to get married if your boy/girl is low either in physique or qualification as per worldly standards) and in no time she was given to a scientist working in Malaysia. The second daughter is given to a boy working in USA. In the same center there are still girls older than these two but our center leader is not offering any match to them. HELLO VIZAG Center are you listening?? wake up from your orthodox ways, your fellow brothers are suffering and the people who know buttering are getting away with things which they do not deserve.

    Dear whistleblower,Betty always vocal about marriages in LEF. Also she is vocal about this blog. Please ask her to write about marriages in this blog, if her intention is to enlighten the people. David paul

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  6. Hey David Paul Betty keeps writing something to become popular. Ask Betty to first set her life and her family in order.

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  7. Sadly the girls in the LEF are trained to respect no body. It suits the Daniel tribe very well. The girls will not adjust to their husbands, in-laws, parents, siblings, terrible fights occur but are all well covered up, mainly due to the fact that children act as shock absorbents (they develop their own problems). Obey me (daniel) It is enough is the teaching (come and attend the May Retreat and give me money , It is OK). No amount of Psychiatric rehabilitation will change the girls. They are good in so many things but never bother about others. I know one unfortunate but good boy who couldn't / didn't go home for months on end for his wife (a nice girl) will tear him to pieces with her tongue (both belong to the families of the courtiers of JD). Real sad

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  8. Definitely the time has come to at least maintain a list of girls with their date of birth (across all centers). Only well connected and money givers get priority

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  9. This is too big a problem to be handled by LEF.Girls of today have great expectations of their partner .Guys who have grown up in LEF from childhood do not want to marry LEF Girls who are deeply into LEF's ideologies.Most of the guys whom i know including me married outside LEF and moved out of LEF because we knew that LEF will not let us marry the type of girl whom i would want to marry and would force me to marry someone identified by JD.Today the state of LEF marriage is even the sons of evangelists are not interested in getting married within the LEF Framework.The problem is not with the LEF Girls.It is with the leaders of LEF who have messed up hundreds of families in LEF under the garb of gods will.

    You ask a Tamil Guy to Marry a Telugu
    You ask a Doctor Girl to marry an non graduate evangelist
    You ask a well qualified IT Professional /Officer Guy to marry a Evangelist or Daniel Family Chamcha's daughter who is pampered and cannot fit into a normal family life.

    90 % of Children born of LEF marriages do not know the meaning of the word "Happy Family".

    The Girls have no option but to act righteous and stay put in LEF trying to be good friends with the evangelists wife .These highly qualified girls end up becoming domestic help to evangelists or teachers in LEF Schools.All these are done so that they get good matches.

    The Guys are smart .The moment they get a job they say LEF won't work and move out.Even if they wish to get married they carefully choose their partner.

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  10. Can someone throw light on.. How the children of Bro. Joe got married foreigners ?
    Why they are not married to Indian girls ? Is that Gods will/ own will/ his fathers will ?
    who proposed those girls to knot with his Indian origin children ?
    Bro.Joe was hardhearted on the Indians who met him in foreign. Then, Why he thought of his kids staying out of India and settled there ?

    What are the reasons behind this ??

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  11. Dear whistleblower, if you father is a pastor or helper in the ministry on fellowship I am sure they would have conducted many marriages like this. Bringing some proposal and saying its god's will. What would be your answer to your fathers then ?

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    1. Our answers to our fathers would be to quit this bloody LEF and run to save their souls. It doesn't matter if it is our fathers or your fathers who did this horrible sin of imposing their will on others as God's will. If Joshua Daniel ended up in hell for manipulating people with his crooked agendas, the same thing should happen to your father and my father for doing the same atrocities. What makes you think that your father and my father will be spared the torture that Joshua Daniel had in his death bed for all the crimes he has has done against people who blindly trusted him if they are also doing similar things to people in the name of God and God's will? It may be that we are doing all we are doing to make our fathers open their eyes before it is too late as in case of Joshua Daniel. So, if your pitch is to somehow make it appear that we are trying to defend our fathers and throw Joshua Daniel and his likes under the bus for all the damage they have done to people in the name of God, you are sadly mistaken.

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    2. I'm not saying that you are defending your fathers. Let me put it this way. Why and how didn't your fathers( other preachers) find the right way even after being ministers and reading bible for so many years? And if they quit LEF after realizing, what can they do to the families which they already damaged? So in your sense, there should not be forgiveness to such people ??

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  12. Dear Anonymous January 05, 2016 9:45 AM, now we are talking. Let me explain my take on this nonsense called LEF and its dubious operations. You ask me a valid question -"Why and how didn't your fathers( other preachers) find the right way even after being ministers and reading bible for so many years?" Being a minister in LEF doesn't mean anything that proves to me that this person has any kind of qualifications to do what he is doing. Someone becoming a preacher/evangelist/minister doesn't tell a lot about that person's credentials to do what he is doing. It is just that he impressed Joshua Daniel and his clan well enough to get this preacher's status. For all you know, my own father could have done this. He would have professed his unquestionable loyalty to Joshua Daniel for him to become a minister in LEF. Who knows what all people do and don't do to get this status of a "preacher" in LEF. I even heard that some people pay Lily Daniel to make them center in charges. Now coming to your question about reading Bible for so many years, I seriously doubt if any preacher of any standing in LEF, has ever embarked on an individual devotional journey of exploring spirituality without being influenced by the corrupted doctrines of LEF and Joshua Daniel. May be they did read their Bibles properly in the initial years of Christian journey but definitely they lost their way somewhere. I can tell you about my father and how I see his role in LEF as a perceive it. All his spirituality and Godliness eventually was just focused on conforming to the ways of LEF and pleasing Joshua Daniel and his stooges to keep his position "secure" in LEF. It is a sad thing to see but it is the reality. If our fathers really damaged some individuals because of their association with LEF (which I am sure they did), they have to face the consequences for it just like Joshua Daniel did. By any stretch of imagination, Joshua Daniel and his wife were good parents. The lives of their children, especially daughters, prove without a shadow of doubt that Joshua Daniel's children are paying a price for the wickedness of their parents. It is a matter of time before same things will happen to people who are walking in Joshua Daniel's footsteps if they don't mend their ways. It is a dangerous business to mess with other people's lives because of the power one has in LEF and in more than one way people who misuse their power will pay a heavy price for it. This includes our fathers too.

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  13. Wrongly posted below comments in other blog but here it is now
    One straight question to whistleblowers: did any one of you have experience of being forced to marry a person by bro.joe? And if not are you taking only failed marriages as an evidence? I personally have experience and he never forced me or any one I know. He only used to say pray about this and let him know. Wasn't it? It is individuals who said I got guidance and got married. Then how come the blame is completely on god's servants ?

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    1. Here is the answer again:
      Anonymous January 05, 2016 9:50 AM, why only one straight question? You can ask several questions and we will surely answer them for you!!! I am happy for you that your marriage worked out fine. Like someone wrote earlier, there is no excuse for a single marriage to fail. The joy and celebration of 10,000 successful marriages will not take away the grief and sorrow of individuals and families whose marriages have become living hell because of LEF's spurious ways. Marriages cannot be compared to manufacturing units where a 0.001% failure rate is seen as acceptable and is a no big deal. Also, it was divine grace that I personally did not become a victim of LEF's marriage system and I am ever grateful to God for that. It may be that I can see LEF as a trap more clearly than most LEF people as I observe the whole drama of LEF as an outsider without any entanglements. Also, another big things is that Daniels have no control of any sort over us to use their usual blackmailing techniques to silence us. Believe me when I say that Daniels and their stooges tried very hard but too bad for them that they couldn't find any puppets in our families for them to use to silence us.

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    2. There are only very few families who really have families in LEF. Most of them are goondas. They act like JD and want to be worshiped by the other family members. Otherwise. Make their lives a living hell.

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    3. Specially pulpit. 100% goondas

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    4. Just imagine the lives of wives and family Of such goondas. They are just trapped.

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  14. Whistleblowers are right in saying that LEF preachers and die-hards generally do not really understand the Bibles that they read (if, in the end, they do read them, rather than being diverted into concentrating almost exclusively on the endless ramblings of N. Daniel and Joshua Daniel, such as are published by their organisation, LEF, in their books and in 'Christ is Victor'. Has nobody ever wondered, incidentally, why established Christian publishers of sound Christian literature have steered clear of the written outpourings of Joshua Daniel for the entirety of his lengthy 'ministry'? Even the less discriminating Christian publishers have given him a wide berth).

    I once had an on-line discussion with such an LEF supporter, who could not understand why I found it advisable to sever any relationship with LEF and in particular with the Daniels. A normally intelligent man in a demanding profession, he seemed unable to do anything other than direct random, out of context Bible verses at me; these verses were all intended to impress on me what a personal risk I was taking with my soul by 'questioning God's anointed (a.k.a Joshua and Lily Daniel - what blasphemy!)', and how necessary it is to be 'humble' no matter what. When I pointed out that his Scriptural evidences were taken out of their biblical and theological context, he announced that he was not going to continue with the discussion. This (written) decision was conveyed with the air of one who did not intend to cast any more of his pearls before obvious swine.

    The same gentleman seemed very impressed with John Daniel, then merely the heir to the Daniel throne, and asked me what was intended to be a rhetorical question, 'How many other employers would allow a man of John Daniel's importance to take so much time off to attend retreats?'. We all now know why - because John Daniel, rather than being the mainstay of General Motors (according to his deceiving father, Joshua Daniel), was in fact a minion whom his employers (not, in fact, General Motors!) seemed to have been quite glad to have had an excuse to get rid of!

    Be that as it may (and it certainly was!), the blind cannot lead the blind. There is no record or evidence of any Daniel having received the kind of training, or, indeed, spiritual in-filling, that would qualify him (or her!) to instruct others in spiritual matters. Therefore those who follow the Daniels' leading, whether spiritual or practical, are in grave danger of falling into the ditch, as Joshua Daniel himself may well have done in the end.

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  15. Dear WB,

    Let me start by saying that I do not go to LEF and thank God that he has shown me the truth. I cannot comment about all the examples but I do know who the people are in Example B. The story is a little different here about the guy leaving the fellowship. He did not leave it, he was asked to go away as he did not agree to join in with another LEF center as advised by some of the so called "leaders" in the church. The main reason being that he was not ready to allow a 200 strong congregation suffer the commute to a distant center only because of of the "Brother's" or "Sister" pointed it out. So he took a stand and God has really blessed him in what he is doing now and his now wife is one of the most influential people around the church. So he is still forcing himself into the headquarters but the LEFites have been advised to keep a distance from him. As one of the contributor here made a comment that some of the marriages do work and this one did too. I am not very sure about his previous marriage and if it was God's will but the girl was diagnosed with cancer and she passed away and the child was born as a miracle since the doctors were not sure if they could have any kids.

    What I am trying t o say is that, there are many marriages which do not work, unfortunately it includes my parents, but some do and I support you in what you are doing, I did not know how really disturbed or corrupt LEF has become till I read your blog. Thanks for contributing but I would also suggest that please don't do 'a LEF' when giving an example. There would not be any difference between them and us 'rebels', please research or add a disclaimer that you will need to find out more and of people have more information about something they can contribute and you can update that.

    I am following your blog, please don't take my comment harshly, I appreciate what you do and want to help you out here. Hope you understand.

    Thanks.

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  16. Dear Anonymous January 17, 2016 4:07 PM,

    Thanks for your input and I understand and appreciate your word of caution. We take as much caution as possible to validate the information sent to us either as comments or as emails. We can surely add the disclaimer going forward. Thanks for your suggestion

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