Now that John Daniel is being called to account by the Indian authorities over LEF's handling of donations, we recommend that you read this helpful link, which explains in detailed Biblical terms what Christian giving really is, and also what it isn't!'
http://www.cultwatch.com/tithing.html
http://www.cultwatch.com/tithing.html
Thanks for the links...
ReplyDeleteVery Useful article.... Thank You.
ReplyDeleteI would like to focus on one problem with JJD. He is constantly humiliating Indians. He calls us Pigeon Heads, Dirty Rags, Poor Tricky Indians , Indian Minds, and the latest is "Well Fighters".... What does he think about himself? Even on his Dad's memorial service he started his message by humiliating Indians and India. "India's history is about "Well Fighters" , Huh... What do you know about India's History my dear? That must be the history of you. Where do you think your father and mother came from? you must have seen well fighting in your house, it is not India's History. In-fact it is the history of America... Fighting for Oil Wells and killing innocent people. For your information people from so called Welll fighters are running Americas economy, to name few ... Sundar Pichai, CEO - Google; , Sathya Nadella - CEO- Microsoft...so many.... Read this article .... You must have got plenty of time after you lost your job.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_Americans.
Next time this JJD guy comes to India ... Please walk away when he stands for giving his Gnan to us. I Promise i will do that. And we should avoid attending these so called retreats which became Matrimony Bazars. Attend to your local center and support the sub centers. Find some Spiritual People and follow them.
Be very careful where you are giving your offering and tithe. I myself stopped giving in the place i used to give but found a simple Evangelist in a village working sincerely. And i told him clearly that if my tithe is sent to the so called HQ, i will stop giving tithes to him. I want it to be used by you justly,you want it to use it for the Church, alright do it. you want to buy a mobile for yourself and you think it is useful in the ministry, Ok go for it. But DON'T SEND IT TO HQ. I see lot of need in the local Churches when these useless people are eating away lavishly for their luxuries and cry on India after eating Indian food. I am now at-least sure that my hard earned money is not spent for adultery and luxury of these useless fellows. And here i would like to say that this is my personal opinion on giving tithes. Being born in LEF, i believe giving tithes is necessary, but i am convinced that you are also responsible if it is actually used for God. When you know it is not, act wisely. There are other doctrines like Zac Poonen who would say it is not compulsory to give tithes. i leave the decision to your good understanding.
And some one please stop the younger sister LyD. Earth would be much lighter if you are not born. You are spilling venom on your own Sister and Whistle-blowers from the platform on your Dad's Memorial service. No Indian would do such cheap things which you and your brother are doing. You are using LEF Platforms for oppressing people and showing off power. Shame on you. First have an exemplary life and then speak.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't we have a open meeting and discuss certain things. We do it for other,why cant we do it for the sake of better LEF. We dealt with Nirbaya, 26/11, Chota Rajan... Why cant we deal with these half headed people. I suggest we should meet as such in "No One Killed Jessica" "rang de basanthi", a public protest. All open, Top brass should shake. I will come first with my candle wherever in the country. Just let me know the date time and place. Use social media.
And sad that some good people are being used by these goons to project a good image of themselves. Jayanth Samuel is asked to sing, .... huh when did he sang last time in a retreat? you want to use people like toys. And some preachers nicely molded themselves with the Daniel Family and their dark deeds. And they have their own plans of taking over "inchargeships" of profit centres.
And for whistle blowers, my suggestion to you is. Unless you take the protest into the public you will not have 100% success. In India everything and everyone can be bribed, except the common man. Go to him, he will help you. If you doubt me, check the cases i mentioned above. No one can ignore the public anger, neither the police, nor the courts,the government. Individually you will fail and end up wasting lot of money, time and energy.
But it is not the public who are cheated but it's the members of lef if lef members want to be quiet the n how the public will come to the picture
DeleteWhy Mrs. Jayanth Samuel is declined to be the in-charge of choir team? Who knows, in the upcoming retreat she may be pulled in to strengthen the muscles of JJD & co. I am not surprised to see the unhealthy words about India & Indian from a useless man. He calls everyone by name. Even the great man of God from coonoor was upset with him because of the insult JJD has done to him. He called him by his name in front of evangelist’s wife and others. MR. JJD, give respect to others or else learn from Indians.
ReplyDeleteIn LEF centers, we are trained to say Good Morning, Good Evening and greetings, etc.
LD is just a fancy model. She is trying to get her a crown in LEF but soon she does not know that LEF is not a place to show off. LEF is place where my dear sisters will cover themselves with full blouse and sarees. I respect if LD can teach and stich some proper dresses for LD.
I understand, if you are in Amercia you need lipstick and 2 pack facial cream on your face. This is because you need to protect your skin from deadly cold zone and to keep yourself pleasing.
Why in India?
JJD has no rights to talk about India. He should better watch out next time or he will have to pay for it.
LD, have you not found any one to marry your last one. How come you were searching for Indian boys while your own son is not happy with Indian mind. You better correct your only Son (other sons are not treating you as mother).
LD, while your own children ( majority ) hate you how come you go out and preach. Can’t you correct yourself and accept your mistakes? They have watched your very closely hence they deprived you.
Whatever it is. Count down has just begun!!! There is going to be a big revolution soon in LEF!!!
LEF will be either closed fully or handled by TN-Govt (with norms).
What is the purpose of a Business?
ReplyDeleteIt is to make money.Every business starts out to make money.There's a bit of contrast, a chasm between business and ministry.I doubt if these guys seek to glorify God.They tomtom only about their family.
What is meant by "tomtom?"
DeleteIt means blowing ones own horn in self praise
DeleteDear Anonymous October 28, 2015 6:00 AM
ReplyDeleteWhen i am saying 'public' or 'common man' i am talking about members in the LEF itself. these are the people who don't carry any power in the LEF, they will help in correcting things. They are aware of what is going on. All such simple people can form a society and fight the evil in the LEF. in fact there are such societies e.g Student parents association, Tenants association etc.. you know School managements tremble when the parents association comes with a protest. We can form may be 'LEF Church members association'. Fighting as a team is more secure than being single out.
Yes it is a good suggestion but somehow people are so scared or what I can t say ,most of them read these blogs but refuse to come out openly and accept they are cheated for generations /long and the psychology involved here is like this. People talk in length about gender bias domestic violence speculation abuse etc etc but it takes courage to openly admit that one is a victim of such things at one s own house. For some in the lef it is the situation and they are very confused for some others they would have been the be beneficiaries of the matrimonial bazaar either themselves or their kids and they feel shy to come out and oppose the rulers and there is another group which is waiting for some responsibilities to be handed over to them. So I guess there is a divergent group in lef and the last and the pathetic group is mostly poor who are so captivated by the sermons of jd etc and refuse to believe the rot inside.
DeleteThe problem is that there are no such people as 'LEF church members', because by definition LEF is not a church, and there is no defined membership. In a tenants' association people have to be registered tenants in order to have a say and a vote. In a parents' association people have to be parents of a child registered as a bona fide student. LEF is an amorphous conglomeration of people who choose, or are compelled by others, to attend meetings run by (and give their money and possessions to) the Daniels, over whom they have no control whatsoever. If LEF were a church, the membership and its terms would be registered somewhere; members would be entitled to attend church meetings, where they would discuss issues on an equal footing with everyone else, and vote according to their God -given discernment (including for whom they want as leaders, according to the Biblical gifts they have identified. Elders and deacons are normally voted in for a fixed number of years).
DeleteYou can't reform, from within, a church which is not a church, because you are not within a church! So the most productive move would be for those who attend LEF meetings, and donate money or possessions, to stop doing this and instead form their own Christian groups. In due course these would become real churches with properly elected leaders, who themselves would be subject to the same discipline as any other member, and who certainly would not be allowed to carry off tithes and offerings with no accountability. Joshua Daniel quite deliberately avoided the subject of the Biblical institution and government of local churches; he disguised this significant omission by claiming to 'dislike committees', for slickly expressed reasons which suggested that there is something ungodly about 'committees' (and by the way registered church members are not a mere 'committee', and neither are Biblically appointed elders and deacons); as a self-appointed oracle of 'spiritual wisdom', and in his own view a 'superior being', he declared that he wanted nothing to do with them. In reality he simply did not want to be accountable to anyone; through this arrogance he put himself in the way of temptation, and the result has been the scandalous behaviour by him and his family which is now coming to light. Pride, indeed, comes before a fall.
Yes, fighting together is more productive than objecting singly. But what are you fighting for? You don't need to fight to form a real church, you just do it! If, however, you want to take over the assets acquired by the Daniels via your money and toil, they are not willingly going to hand them over. Otherwise they would have made arrangements to do so by now, considering all the evidence against them. That would now have to be a legal battle. Because of the general duplicity of the Daniels, and Joshua's refusal to be normally accountable to those over whom he claimed authority, it will be difficult to establish ownership of assets, but it's worth a try, and Whistleblowers have been doing their best to make the Daniels accountable.
God tells us (in Paul's epistles) that the Holy Spirit will in due course supply believers with all the gifts necessary to the local body of Christ, the local church - principally those related to preaching and teaching, but others as well. These gifts must be identified by the church membership, who will then give permission for them to be exercised by those who give evidence of having them. It is not Biblical for individuals like Joshua or John Daniel to 'inherit' spiritual leadership without reference to the body of believers over whom they claim authority. The dubious nature of their 'preaching' confirms this. Try listening to some real preaching on, for example, SermonAudio.com, and you will see the difference.
You do not need the name of LEF, or its tarnished reputation, to become a local Body of Christ just where you are.
Let us not worry about anything. The time has come to destroy these rogues. They will fight themselves and come to streets very soon. They will soon understand their evil plans have devoured them. True believers keep praying. God will make a NEW way. How long they can run. LD will be called home in next few years because of these turmoil. I see that she is already undergoing lot of torments because of LEF property and business. Her regular sleep is gone. Her health is sinking. Her eye sight is becoming dull. God will close all the doors. Just wait and see! IC has drafted all his plans to overtake Daniel Family. There is already a big smoke between JJD and Junior LD (JLD). JJD is unhappy with JLD because of her dual play. JJD has to learn many things. He can't only change his dress code for America and India. He also has to change his behavior. Should learn treat senior servants of God well. India is full of cultural stand and everyone should respect it. I am not saying that we should worship it but we should respect it. JJD is changing his dress code in India because India is not a place where we can go with Suite all the places. I don’t know why he is not understanding the people climate. We can't treat or behave as he is doing with western or Europeans. India has its own values so as the seniors too. The best way to protest these guys is to STOP going and attending and following these useless team. Start exploring the best church near to your place. Don't travel to places to attend annual retreat whereas you can help others and preach others. Don't send money to LEF, see that your tithe is used for God's glory. Ask God to give you Wisdom and understanding. These guys may say bad about you or even they will be ready to curse you. But don’t worry about anything. God has created us for his purpose. Nothing is going to harm you until he is at our side. Carry on with your good work and keep praying. I have a question to Whistleblower, Can we send a note to High-court of Tamil Nadu having this blog is the evidence of something wrong going on in LEF org? Will they consider this and start investigating on it? Please throw some light.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the use of all this stuff. They are still men and not angels.
ReplyDeleteThe purpose of 'all this stuff' is to expose in some detail how members of one family have consistently abused tens, perhaps hundreds, of thousands of often well-meaning but gullible people over many decades in the name of Christ. It is hoped that this information will eventually curtail this family's wicked and cultish activities, that those currently in bondage will realise the truth and be released from its negative influence, and that no more victims will be enslaved.
DeleteDo you mean that the humanity of the Daniel family members spoken of here, the fact they are not supernatural beings, should make them immune from exposure and the need to repent? What is the point of the Gospel if evil folk can continue to practise evil, refusing to acknowledge or repent of it, whilst claiming the right to preach their version of Christian truth to others?
Jesus publicly, forcefully, and in detail exposed the Pharisees as 'whited sepulchres' (literally, tombs full of putrifying flesh disguised as something noble and beautiful). He did so because they wielded enormous spiritual influence over the people and that influence was both turning those people away from eternal truth (in effect, Himself), and meanwhile making their earthly lives unnecessarily difficult.
The answer to your question lies in Scripture. Jesus and the apostles devoted much time to warnings about false teachers and how Christian groups should expose them and, if they were present in their midst, either require them to repent, or eject them.
as a contributor of the church, can we ask for accounts and expenditure through indian law of society registration act? how to make them to publish the income,expenditure etc
ReplyDeleteSee above. It is not a church, so I do not see how it can be held to account as if it were. Those who go to its meetings and give it money have no legal status in terms of making LEF accountable.
DeleteIt might be possible to use business rules. Charitable trust rules would be good, but I don't think these exist in India.
Hopefully this is a lesson in not handing over money indiscriminately to people who simply persuade or psychologically bully you into giving it..........
The best approach would be to file for RTIs with the TN government.
DeleteRTI is only applicable to govt departments. But if any one has a given a criminal complaint for example against a person and waiting for the govt to take action he can apply through RTI and know the status of the case. But lef is not answerable as per provisions of RTI
Deletecan we ask govt through rti the details of board meetings, resolutions etc? Finally how to force them to disclose the accounts
DeleteBut St.Paul exhorts not to wrestle with flesh and blood....
ReplyDeleteHe didn't mention posting on the internet either.
DeleteNo, Srinivas, The apostle Paul does not tell us NOT to wrestle with flesh and blood. What he is saying in context is that the difficulties we encounter are not caused by mere flesh and blood, but by 'spiritual wickedness', which is much more dangerous and hard to combat. Moreover in the New Testament both Jesus, as reported, and the writers themselves, tell us frequently how important it is to fight against wickedness, especially where false teachers are compromising the word of God for their own benefit, whether it be for power, or for material wealth, or both. There are many examples of how the apostles, in the early church, dealt very firmly with such people, often ejecting them from the fellowship of believers. These were not outsiders, but people who had appeared to be genuine in the Christian faith, and had often held positions of leadership. I think you have failed to observe the context of the verse in Ephesians that you appear to refer to.
ReplyDeleteForgive me if I have misunderstood your motive. However to try to dissuade people from fighting against wickedness, whether perpetrated by 'flesh and blood', or as a spiritual attack, is to fall into the deliberate trap set by Joshua Daniel and others. Although Joshua Daniel's understanding of biblical theology was minimal, since he never submitted himself to such teaching, he was cunning enough to misuse scripture passages for his own purposes. Thus he would largely prevent any discussion, or disagreement, or request for accountability, by trying to frighten similarly untaught people. He and Lily would warn anyone who dared to question his teaching and authority that God would punish them for this, because 'you must beware of touching God's anointed'. In fact this is blasphemy, because when the Bible speaks of 'God's Anointed' it is referring to exclusively to the Lord Jesus Christ, not to Joshua Daniel or any other arrogant person who might seek to apply that description to himself (Joshua Daniel is not the only one, as there are many other false teachers out there who do likewise). This behaviour is typical of cult leaders. I have personally been made aware of Joshua and Lily Daniel threatening at least one quite vulnerable family that bad things would happen to their children and to themselves if they left the LEF. You may have read here of an occasion when John Daniel called on the 'angel of death' in public prayer to punish those who left the LEF (in the USA). Joshua Daniel's emphasis on the importance of prayer was not, I fear, as noble as it might appear. Rather than act on the requests or concerns of those he claimed to 'shepherd', he and Lily would tell them to go away and 'pray about it'; thus he could both get rid of them and sound 'super-spiritual' at the same time!
Incidentally, those threatened as above have not been visited by 'the angel of death', nor have 'bad things' happened to themselves and their children! People should not be intimidated by, or allow themselves to be restricted by, the false teachings of Joshua and Lily Daniel, re-iterated by their naive followers.
Thank you for your post .Personally I had been a victim of such threats by some in lef and I was made to seek their pardon for asking some genuine questions regarding the way marriages are arranged in lef . Their mantra whenever they are question ed seems to be this. Don t question God s anointed. And people will be so frightened to think further.Again I thank u for this explanation regarding this. Hope lef follwers read this and understand the truth.
DeleteJoshua Daniel was very good at making other people ask for forgiveness in situations where in fact he was at fault! I did it once myself, and even encouraged my daughter to do it, and I am not easily fooled and was never in bondage to the Daniels. Even many years later I wonder how I could have been so foolish, and she tells me that she did it out of respect for me, not for Joshua Daniel, whom she never liked or trusted. An ignorant man in many ways, he nevertheless possessed a certain native cunning, and perfected the art of making others feeling permanently guilty about something, anything! This is not the same as the Holy Spirit convicting us of our sin, but a classic example of the kind of spiritual evil that Paul talks about when he tells us that we do not merely wrestle with flesh and blood, but with spiritual wickedness.
DeleteMaking people dwell on their sinful acts (either genuine, or imagined as the result of brainwashing) is what cult leaders do. The love and mercy of Jesus is never enough in their 'teaching'. They twist the Bible to suit their own ends. They do it very subtly; if they did it blatantly and obviously, no sincere person would pay attention to them.
The Biblical use of the term 'anointing' was grossly distorted by Joshua Daniel, as it is still by his daughter Betty (and others), who claims to have an 'anointing' ministry, and walks around with what appears to be a bottle of cooking oil in her hand, which she smears indiscriminately on gullible people whilst uttering one of her 'powerful' prayers. Despite the conflict for power in this family, the apple does not fall far from the tree!
DeleteIn the Old Testament we read of Saul being anointed as a symbol of his earthly kingship over the Israelites, and even now earthly kings and queens are symbolically anointed at the beginning of their reigns. In the New Testament (or covenant) the only instruction to 'anoint' we read of is in James, who recommends that those believers who are ill should be both prayed for and 'anointed with oil'. Reputable Bible scholars suggest that the use of oil here is of medicinal significance (in keeping with the medical practices of the time), rather than symbolic. In other words, Christians should attend to the sufferer's physical needs (medical applications) as well as to his spiritual needs (prayer). It is not an instruction to smear people with cooking oil routinely and indiscriminately.
False teachers often talk about themselves, or their 'ministries', or their 'sermons', as being 'anointed', by which term they claim that in some way the Holy Spirit has given extraordinary blessing and authority to them, their activities, and what they proclaim. This is a nonsense use of the term, but to the ignorant sounds impressive (which is the object of using it)!
Jesus, and Jesus only, is God's Anointed One. However the only time we read of Jesus being physically anointed with oil is in connection with His death. When a woman anoints Him with expensive oil He indicates that this is looking forward to His sacrificial death. After His death He is again anointed, in the normal process of burial.
Do not revere people like Joshua Daniel and Betty Daniel, who misuse scripture in order to make themselves seem important. In fact if Betty approaches you with her bottle of cooking oil in her hand, suggest that she uses it to make you a nice, nourishing biryani!
However all true believers are commanded to be 'filled with the Spirit'. The more we are filled with the Spirit and study God's Word with expectant, discriminating minds, the less likely we are to fall prey to the often ridiculous, self-aggrandising strategies of people like Joshua, Lily, Betty, John, and Lydia Daniel.
Hey.. How do I contact you?
ReplyDeleteEmail us at savelefi@hotmail.com
DeleteHow do I contact you guys?
ReplyDeleteEmail us at savelefi@hotmail.com
DeleteAll 'president' John Daniel has to do to bring an end to a least some of these continuing accusations is to invite interested parties freely to examine detailed LEF accounts, together with records of all financial and land transactions. Is that so hard?
ReplyDeleteInstead members of the Daniel family run around trying to persuade, or bribe, people they think of as influential to help them prevent any investigation. They put pressure on certain of their naive followers to try to forbid those who they think are posting here from doing so - thus convincing others to 'do their dirty work' for them (nothing new there, then!).
Anything rather than producing concrete evidence of their innocence; or if they cannot do so, asking for mercy and forgiveness, and at least trying to make restitution.
What dark blots they are on the reputation of our Saviour.........
It has always been Daniel family's wont to employ stooges to do their dirty work.These stooges whom they employ are spineless people who can never stand up for the truth. We have been hearing about the ramblings of some of these stooges who are claiming that they have taken on themselves to call and "BLAST" whom they suspect as being behind this blog. Just for records, we would want the readers to know that none of was BLASTED by any of these Daniel family stooges.
Deleteis it crime to expose sins of some who looting people in the name of God? that's why govt formed tribunal to try whistleblowers!! these morons still think that all people can be fooled forever
ReplyDeleteMany are now employed to spread rumors that people behind this blog have apologized to JJD and have backed off. What concocted stories some of these people believe and spread??? Here is the classic rumor making rounds - PMO's office sent the complaint that people have lodged against for TN government to investigate. TN government set up a tribunal and the tribunal called the Whistle blowers to come and testify before the tribunal. The representative for WB did not show up even though JJD showed up. So, the tribunal told JJD to go back home and relax and also told him that all cases against LEF are dropped as the whistleblowers got scared and backed off. Now the Tamilnadu CM has assured JJD that whistleblowers will be arrested. WHAT A STORY!!! Brilliant imagination...more in the line with story in Jesus' days of a woman caught in adultery and brought to Jesus.
ReplyDelete------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.
9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”
11 “No, Lord,” she said.
And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”
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These Daniel family rogues think that the gullible LEF people will easily buy into the story. These rogues know that some of these brainwashed people do not have common sense. THIS IS FOR THE RECORDS OF THOSE WHO HAVE HEARD THESE RUMORS - No tribunal contacted whistle-blowers to come and appear before the tribunal. This is a plain lie that Daniel family rogues have concocted. No whistle blower has backed off. If we did, then who is running the blog? GHOSTS? Some of these LEF fools will not shy away to spread another rumor that some ghosts are behind the blog.
who's that crook spreading rumors? pl give his name. he must be taught a lesson
DeletePlease publish the name of the stooge (s), most possibly that fellow would have gobbled a fat amount of money he would have got from LD and JJD, and so will make up such stories. I will add one, After JJD told with all sincerity, all the tribunal members wept and confessed their real and imaginary sins, and all walked up to the nearest river and were baptized. They told JJD, "blessed are thine and thy fruit, Use thy talents to steal more", The devils trembled, the volcanoes came on, Rain poured in torrents, and billions of (rupees) were touched, Suddenly in came Betty who screamed, why are you favoring him, I am the first born, and JJD said I am the first son, so all went to King Solomon to settle, who simply ran away to India to collect some gold... All the Whistleblowers were caught and bound hand and foot and were thrown to the Lions, but those wicked fellows made friends with the Lions and all sang a song of Joy, with he Lions dancing etc...
ReplyDeleteThe stooge might be female, even an ex-patriate Indian lady with skeletal connections........
DeleteOh! Are all these comments,criticisms,fault findings biblical? A leader to head a church will be appointed by the Holy Spirit for His thoughts are not ours.If we are so concerned about the church's progress then certainly this is not the way but to TRAVAIL in prayer.
ReplyDeleteSrinivas Gangari:. Please study what the New Testament epistles say about church leaders, and how to appoint them. Read, in particular, the instructions given by Paul to Timothy and Titus.
DeleteWhat do you make of what Paul writes? Do you see any mention of the Holy Spirit 'magically' producing pastors, elders, and deacons out of thin air without the agency of the gathered church? The believers were both to pray and to act. They had the authority both to appoint and to dismiss leaders. Once groups of believers were established in different places, they were prayerfully to follow the apostles' teachings in this matter - apostles who, in turn, had received instruction directly from the Lord Himself. Jesus must have taught the twelve so much more than what has been revealed in Gospel narratives during His three years with them. In the apostles' writings it is revealed, and in the New Testament writings of other disciples.
Joshua Daniel was one of many self-appointed 'leaders' who claim that the Holy Spirit gives them direct messages about everything. Nobody can question or protest against their edicts because they imply that to question them is to question God Himself. They claim that they are 'anointed' (whatever they suppose that wrongly applied description to mean).
'God has told me that X must marry Y'; 'God has told me that you must go to Z'; 'God has told me this.... 'God has told me that......'. Does it sound familiar? Well it should, because it is the kind of arrogant nonsense that emanates from members of the Daniel family ad nauseum, and most of the time, and has done for decades, and many naive, untaught people have fallen for this unbiblical rubbish.
'His thoughts are not ours'?????? No, they are not, we could not attain to the wisdom of God, and that is precisely why God has bequeathed us His Word; the living Word in Jesus, and the written Word in the Bible. Everything we need to know is there, and with the completion of the Canon of Scripture there was no need for anything else - especially not for members of the Daniel family, and similar hirelings, to claim that God is giving them special little privileged messages which allow them to dictate the lives of others who are apparently not 'spiritual' enough to be party to what God intends for them.
Yes, sometimes the criticisms here may be expressed ungraciously. People are angry, and many feel humilated that they have allowed the Daniel family and their henchmen to dictate to them, without biblical authority, for so long. Some are too nervous to speak out here, perhaps because of their circumstances, or because they have a lingering fear (through lack of genuine Bible instruction) that the nonsense by means of which they have been kept subservient might yet be true. Some just want to stay on the band-wagon.
I thank God for every revelation here, even though imperfectly expressed, or with less than noble motives. We hope and pray that such revelations will turn disempowered believers away from the falseness that is LEF, and the fakery that is the Daniel 'leadership', and help them to see the urgency of seeking biblical fellowship in a biblical church, with a biblically-appointed leadership which will be biblically accountable to its flock.
The notion that 'travail in prayer' takes away any responsibility to act was perpetrated by the Daniels precisely to stop action which might undermine their fleshly 'authority'. Please do not fall for it yourself, and please do not try to put others under such bondage. In any case, as the Whistleblowers have just reminded you, LEF is not, and never was, a church in the biblical sense.
Srinivas, you can wake up a sleeping man but not someone who pretends to be sleeping. Unfortunately that seems to be the case with you. LEF is not a CHURCH by any stretch of imagination. It is not a church in a secular way nor in a Biblical way. LEF is a family business that has a cloak of CHURCH. The idea of this blog is expose these people who have been playing GOD and CHURCH to loot people. Please do not give a spiritual spin to all this with your "HOLIER THAN THOU" attitude...
ReplyDeleteThe Church isn't spiritual ? Please read Mark16:17 .There is nothing to do with Church Administration.Perfect organisation doesn't exist.
ReplyDeleteSrinevas Gangari: I think you have misunderstood. The church is, of course, a spiritual body, but as the body of Christ it is subject to being ordered according to the perfect wishes of Christ, not the flawed direction and imagination of man. As soon as man takes the reins without reference and obedience to Biblical guidance, groups of Christians gradually cease to be churches in the biblical sense and start heading towards apostasy and heresy. LEF groups have never been ordered as local churches according to biblical precepts, but dominated by one family, a family which at least in recent decades has had its own agenda.
DeleteYour reference is taken out of context, and reads, 'and these signs will accompany those who believe; in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues.' What relevance does this verse have to the topic of New Testament church government? Are you implying that all a person has to do to be a leader is to cast out demons(allegedly) and speak a known foreign language that they have not learnt?
No wonder the LEF is so confused, if this is the kind of teaching that people are absorbing. And, by the way, the last six verses of Mark's Gospel are amongst a very few over which some doubt hangs, according to godly Biblical scholars, as to whether they were indeed part of the original agreed canon of scripture. Assuming that they were, you really need to understand them in context, with the aid of a reliable commentary such as those of Matthew Henry or Matthew Poole.
No, of course there is no such thing as perfect church government. We are all imperfect, and shall be until we meet the Lord face-to-face. Are you saying that because we cannot be perfect in our decisions and activities, we should give up looking to the Bible for our direction, because we shall never get it right?
Admittedly some people associated with LEF seem to have abandoned the teachings of Scripture in favour of the confused and self-centred utterances of members of the Daniel family. If they have done this wilfully they may have some explaining to do on the day of judgement.
Matthew 7: 21-23.