This blog was started on January 16th of this year 2015. In this five month journey of the blog, we the whistle blowers have faced threats. We were lured by bribes. We were coerced into shutting the blog down in more than one way. This rogue JJD, LD and his stooges in India used all the methods in the books to scare us off from exposing these rogues. We have had threatening phone calls from people allegedly identifying themselves as cops calling on behalf of Daniel family in the US threatening to sue people whom the Daniel family suspects to be behind the blog. This alleged poor cop whom we suspect was conned by JJD to call to threaten the suspected whistle blowers had to be prompted by JJD on what to say the whole time he was on the phone. As surprising as it is, this alleged cop broke the American law when making this phone call to try to give a friendly advice to stop harassing Daniel family members failing which he said Mr. Daniel would be taking legal action. We are still waiting to hear back from the cop if he was indeed the one who called some of the suspected whistle blowers as we are waiting to press charges against him for calling random people and harassing them. A cop in USA has no power beyond his area of jurisdiction and this cop really did not seem to have any idea that he was doing an illegal thing by trying to do a favor to his bosom friend, Mr. Daniel. Of course, till date no indication of any legal action was initiated by the all powerful Daniel clan. How we wish they initiate a legal action against the whistle blowers so that the whole world can publicly watch this rogue family brought to trial. In this post, we dare the Daniel family to take us to court if they are really innocent instead of thundering and screaming about the whistle blowers from LEF pulpits. JJD and LD, are you ready to go legal against us??? We are ready to face you...
The way the LEF folks randomly give orders to "DELETE THE BLOG" brings to memory an old Indian folk story that goes like this...
On a very busy road of a certain town was found a strong looking man squatted on the floor. This man virtually threatened every passer on that busy road by flexing his strong muscles on his arms and showing it off to people while saying to people - "Empty your pockets here. You don't want to face my wrath by not following my orders. You all don't even want to know what I can do if I move from this place." People of that town lived under this fear and nobody ever dared to oppose him and emptied their pockets and gave him what all he demanded. This went on for many years till one small boy from that town wanted to get to the bottom of it. He couldn't tolerate to see people being threatened like this and looted. One thing that struck this boy was that the bully was always in the same spot on that road and never seemed to have moved from that place. One night he decided to wait in the corner of the road to see what this bully was doing during night when there was no crowd on the road. He patiently waited to see what this man was going to do with all the money he collected in the night and where he would go in the night. What he saw that night shook the little boy and he could hardly contain himself. He went home that night but couldn't fall asleep for the rest of the night as his mind was racing thinking about what was about to happen the next day. The following morning, it was usual business on that busy town road. As usual the big bully on the road was threatening people and people were just emptying their pockets and giving what all this bully was demanding. This little boy who watched this bully the previous night waited till the busiest time on that road and as usual the bully was flexing his muscle and threatening people. To everybody's shock, this little boy walked to the bully who was squatted on the floor and grabbed the bag of money that was next to him and dared the bully to come and catch him if he could. People who were watching this episode were shaking in fear thinking about how this little boy was going to be beaten up to pulp by this strong bully. The squatted bully was sending threats after threats while the little boy was challenging the bully to catch him if he could. Now the on lookers were surprised that the bully was not rising up to the challenge. While the bully was still threatening, the little boy walked straight up to where the bully was seated and pulled out the shawl this bully always had laid across his lap. To everybody's shock, people now saw the reason as to why the bully was always in the same spot and never really got up to chase the boy or anybody for that matter. The bully was paralyzed in both legs and was totally immobile. My dear readers, one can only imagine what kind of treatment this lame bully received for doing what he did for so many years once he was exposed like this by this little boy. At the same time, the little boy also gave the names of the people who came and collected money from this paralyzed man in the dark of the night. When all of this was exposed, people of the town thanked the boy for freeing them from the menace that tormented them for so many years even though some of them called the little boy a fool for challenging this strong bully. The story of the LEF rogues is the same as that of this paralyzed bully. They have no moral feet to stand up and defend themselves and all they do is stay squatted on the floor and threaten people that they will do this and that... We once again dare LD, JJD and junior LD and their stooges to do what anybody who feels defamed would do to clear their names if they are truly wrongly implicated and want to prove their innocence.
The way the LEF folks randomly give orders to "DELETE THE BLOG" brings to memory an old Indian folk story that goes like this...
On a very busy road of a certain town was found a strong looking man squatted on the floor. This man virtually threatened every passer on that busy road by flexing his strong muscles on his arms and showing it off to people while saying to people - "Empty your pockets here. You don't want to face my wrath by not following my orders. You all don't even want to know what I can do if I move from this place." People of that town lived under this fear and nobody ever dared to oppose him and emptied their pockets and gave him what all he demanded. This went on for many years till one small boy from that town wanted to get to the bottom of it. He couldn't tolerate to see people being threatened like this and looted. One thing that struck this boy was that the bully was always in the same spot on that road and never seemed to have moved from that place. One night he decided to wait in the corner of the road to see what this bully was doing during night when there was no crowd on the road. He patiently waited to see what this man was going to do with all the money he collected in the night and where he would go in the night. What he saw that night shook the little boy and he could hardly contain himself. He went home that night but couldn't fall asleep for the rest of the night as his mind was racing thinking about what was about to happen the next day. The following morning, it was usual business on that busy town road. As usual the big bully on the road was threatening people and people were just emptying their pockets and giving what all this bully was demanding. This little boy who watched this bully the previous night waited till the busiest time on that road and as usual the bully was flexing his muscle and threatening people. To everybody's shock, this little boy walked to the bully who was squatted on the floor and grabbed the bag of money that was next to him and dared the bully to come and catch him if he could. People who were watching this episode were shaking in fear thinking about how this little boy was going to be beaten up to pulp by this strong bully. The squatted bully was sending threats after threats while the little boy was challenging the bully to catch him if he could. Now the on lookers were surprised that the bully was not rising up to the challenge. While the bully was still threatening, the little boy walked straight up to where the bully was seated and pulled out the shawl this bully always had laid across his lap. To everybody's shock, people now saw the reason as to why the bully was always in the same spot and never really got up to chase the boy or anybody for that matter. The bully was paralyzed in both legs and was totally immobile. My dear readers, one can only imagine what kind of treatment this lame bully received for doing what he did for so many years once he was exposed like this by this little boy. At the same time, the little boy also gave the names of the people who came and collected money from this paralyzed man in the dark of the night. When all of this was exposed, people of the town thanked the boy for freeing them from the menace that tormented them for so many years even though some of them called the little boy a fool for challenging this strong bully. The story of the LEF rogues is the same as that of this paralyzed bully. They have no moral feet to stand up and defend themselves and all they do is stay squatted on the floor and threaten people that they will do this and that... We once again dare LD, JJD and junior LD and their stooges to do what anybody who feels defamed would do to clear their names if they are truly wrongly implicated and want to prove their innocence.
These guys got quite a nerve to justify their wrongdoings! I wish they take up the challenge and Dude whoever you are, you got some steel to stand up for the truth! respect!
ReplyDeleteBTW, I've been wanting to know if we can contribute to the topics. For a very long time now, have wanted to write out some uncanny happenings. What would be the email address that it has to be sent to?
Send whatever you need us to publish to savelefi@hotmail.com
DeleteDear Whistleblower, I'm coming from a strong Fellowship background, When i read all your posts really i felt bad of Fellowship, Recently i went to Retreat and the message given by John Daniel Uncle was so powerful and it convicts the people, I don't know how things are happening like this, Really i couldn't believe Fellowship, Are they doing like these type of criminal activities, I believe some are true and some true and some are false, Dear brother how far this blog is useful and how far you have seen the improvement in whistleblower?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 9 June 12.16am.
DeleteI am not 'Whistleblower', but just a contributor to this blog who is very concerned about the vulnerable people who are being, and have already been, damaged by LEF and the Daniel family. There may be a little exaggeration from some here, but that happens sometimes when people are angry and upset. As well as reading what is on this blog, I have had private contact with a number of reputable, mature LEF-connected Christians who confirm the basic truths of the evils that you are reading about. They come from different backgrounds and different countries, and they have communicated with me individually and usually do not know each other. As individuals, and at different times, they realised the unbiblical and corrupt nature of LEF and the Daniels, and severed their connection with it. Did you not read the letter of your own Brother Sathy in India, which he allowed to be published here? His negative experiences of LEF had dated back years, and eventually he had no option but to disassociate himself, even though it cost him much, and he had always been intensely loyal to LEF.
You must, however, find it hard to believe, coming from your background. There are many who love Jesus and attend the LEF, but because of the poor teaching, sometimes no teaching, they quite often do not realise how corrupt it is.
I do not mean to be rude, but your description of John Daniel's 'preaching' tends to demonstrate how bereft LEF Indians are of really biblical, truly Spirit-led, doctrinally sound preaching. I heard John Daniel 'preach' about ten years ago, and I took the trouble to watch some of his 'sermons' at the recent May LEF gathering. Ten years ago I felt that he had absolutely no gift for preaching, and should abandon this activity. Having watched him again now, my opinion has not changed. He does not know what it means to open up, or 'expound', the Scriptures. All he does is take passages out of context, misinterpret them, relate little anecdotes, and generally major on how sinful his listeners are. He seems to know nothing about the nature of God, or the attributes of God, since he never attempts to enlighten his 'audience' to these important biblical truths. In short, one could listen to this man rambling on for days, and come away still basically ignorant of the beautiful Gospel truths that real men of God so love to convey - and that, I fear, was the end state of all who listened to him in Chennai recently!
I am therefore puzzled by your mention of 'powerful' and 'conviction' in connection with John Daniel. Even his father had a certain 'gift of the gab' , though was himself no better a 'preacher' than John in spiritual terms. I think that if people are used to being repeatedly told how sinful they are throughout every 'sermon', they expect it at every sermon, and the 'conviction' they think they experience is in reality the result of habit and brow-beating, rather than truly of the Holy Spirit. May I respectfully suggest that you listen to the preaching of genuine preachers such as Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Spurgeon, Albert Martin, and many others who can be accessed on the SermonAudio.com website?
The Daniels have always dissuaded their followers from listening to real preaching, other than to import naive men from America and Australia , who come because in some way Joshua Daniel managed to impress them, and/or they have only small or even no congregations in their own countries, and want the experience of 'preaching to thousands', which they would not otherwise get. These men have a vested interest, are carefully regulated by the Daniels, and are no threat to them.
Please look outside of LEF for Biblical reality. There is no point in looking for improvement within. May the Lord bless you in proportion to your desire to know Him and follow Him more closely.
Thank You brother, for your information, Once i got chance to have chat with Uncle Sathy to confirm he said everything but my doubt is Late Uncle Joe was also involved in this corruption or not, Many people in LEF are telling that Uncle Joe was so perfect in handling money matters, Can you give me a list of preaches who are always back of this Daniels group especially in Tamilnadu because we as a small group of people may be aware and be cautious of this group, Many from my place are giving tithes to LEF now it has reduced, From Tamilnadu we as a group supporting you but we don't know how to approach you, What kind of help do you need, we will do our best to save the people of LEF from the rogues family, What about North India people laboring over there? because right now im working in Gujarat, If you give me any information regarding Gujarat ministries i may stop going there and see some other place, Can you suggest me where to go for worship because i don't know anything other than Fellowship, If you suggest me it will be helpful for me and my Family, Thank You, Bye
Delete====
Deletemy doubt is Late Uncle Joe was also involved in this corruption or not, Many people in LEF are telling that Uncle Joe was so perfect in handling money matters
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A) Active deception was being practised on Uncle Joe by some of the people around him who were motivated by self interest, not God
B) However, Uncle Joe himself had enough knowledge that things were not right. He could have found out the full story if he bothered to investigate. Only God knows why Uncle Joe did not conduct a full investigation.
C) Uncle Joe himself committed financial wrongdoings, and covered up those things.
JD always kept quiet at the loot. I will not accept that he was totally in the dark, He also shared a part of the loot. JD lived life king size, without working for a day or earning a rupee and I have to ask me from where the money came for his lifestyle
DeleteDear Whistleblower, I appreciate you for this bold approach you have made this blog for the sake of Fellowship people, What should i have to do to help you? Do you see any changes in Fellowship?, Only the younger generations are active and accepting but the older ones are in same stage, What do you feel about this, Is it really beneficial for our Fellowship People?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous June 9 12.22 am
Delete(I am not Whistleblower)
It must always be beneficial to expose wrongdoing, especially when it is done in the name of Christ, and the wrongdoers have been given many opportunities to repent and put things right over many years. If only a few people can be dissuaded from joining or following this corrupt organisation, it must surely be worth all the effort made and threats received. As it is, many who left LEF, for reasons of becoming aware of corruption, years ago, have been stirred to make contact in order to support those who are still trapped in it, either through circumstances, or through fear.
It is a good exercise in these circumstances to go through the Bible, and especially the New Testament, to see how often Jesus Himself, and later His apostles, openly condemned wrongdoers who claimed to be His followers, often naming them.
The best way to help the cause is to liberate people from the clutches of the evil people- Lily Daniel, John Daniel and Lydia Daniel. If you can at all, please encourage the simple evangelists (especially from Andhra) not to be bullied by these toothless tigers. The latest we are hearing is that John Daniel with the help of Suresh Marcus is going to send money collectors to even small villages to collect all the money to bring it to HQ for these lazy gluttons to splurge and eat. So, please tell those poor evangelists to revolt and refuse to give the money bags to these rogues. Find ways to create local trusts and move out the LEF properties to local churches. All we need is 7 senior members of any center to form a trust and go and register the trust locally and change the ownership of the present LEF properties to local trusts. A lot of people feel stuck and cornered as they have no guidance on how to run a church locally without the interference of these rogues. We know that one evangelist from Naidupet in Nellore Dt. boldly opposed these rogues and registered the church locally and got out of the wicked grip of these blood sucking monsters. So, please help the small evangelists. Be kind to them. Work with and support them to come out of LEF. If people do not take care of things locally, it will be just a matter of time Lily Daniel and John Daniel will be auctioning out LEF properties to liquidate the properties. We hear from reliable sources that HQ property has been mortgaged and that LD along with IC took huge sums of money by taking a loan by mortgaging the HQ property. LEF properties are communal properties. They do not belong to any one family or individual. Each LEF attendee who has given tithes and offerings has a right to all LEF
Deleteproperties as equal owners. Neither John Daniel, nor his dad nor his grand dad earn all of these properies with their sweat and blood. All of these properties are acquired by the hard earned money of the LEF congregation. Please take ownership of your centers. If your local evangelists are mean and nasty, put some fear in them that they will be kicked out of the centers not by LD and JJD but by the congregration members as it is the congregration members whom these evangelists have to serve and not the lazy bandicoot Daniel family which sits on its bottoms and eats without earning an earnest meal by hard work.
We hear from reliable sources that HQ property has been mortgaged and that LD along with IC took huge sums of money by taking a loan by mortgaging the HQ property
DeleteThis can be checked by asking the bank branch / by giving a lawyer notice on the newspaper, asking that any body who has a lien (hold) on this property to immediately inform
Lovely idea use using Pygmy collectors, every drop makes a mighty ocean, (but why does the LEF demand money when it doesn't have any employees / salaries). Let the evangelists demand written orders addressed to whom from whom (God only knows). Readers of this blog know that a similar scheme was employed by LD in coonoor where collections from 4-6 centers were vaccum cleaned on all Mondays. Old habits don't die
DeleteAsk Suresh Marcus to inform JJD to directly come and get the money, Tell Suresh Marcus that you will not pay to this chamcha (sidekick) and if he talks much ask him to discuss with the congregation as it is they who give the money. Still if Suresh Marcus cant understand let some strong brothers make the situation clear to him
DeleteGOOD ADVICE, WHISTLEBLOWER 11 June 9.02!
DeletePlease, brothers and sisters, follow it as soon as possible.
Anonymous June 10 @ 9.14: is this something that you could encourage in Gujarat or Tamil Nadu?
Time is short if Indian people want to claim an interest in assets their money has bought, so that they can worship freely 'in spirit and in truth'. The net appears to be closing in around John Daniel and family. North Americans, Canadians, and most Germans have already disassociated with the Daniels and LEF over the years. One property in the USA, which is allegedly an LEF centre, has already been re-financed.
It seems that many long-term Indian LEF people have already stopped tithing to LEF, and rightly so. The Daniel family, and others who have been milking the income LEF derives from tithes, offerings, legacies, widows' properties etc., will be looking for other sources of income. The Americans will not support them. They will more and more be looking to liquidate assets. YOUR ASSETS!!!!!!!!! Even worse, GOD'S ASSETS!!!!!!!!!
Freedom from Daniel tyranny is within the reach of every LEF worshipper.
Whistle blower it is not a surprise that they threaten you ' try to bribe you This is sooooo normal for LEF with powerful message. Even one of their close one who lives a wicked life fight abuse oppress and mock at others sufferings , tal all the time how big they are in LEF says everybody in LEF who are doing ministry are like him. It is strange some want to believe how powerful LEF is while many inside the top circle including the family members of top all these hypo racy abuse oppression is normal. They can do what they want with their life. But using Gods name ruining and controlling and oppressing should stop because it is evil. We will not have bible or free to go to God if Gods men like John Knox' 'Martin Luther etc did not fight against then church and sacrificed their life. You are helping not one but thousands. Keep doing the good work. Thousands and thousands are thanking God for you. Only they are afraid to come out because of the threats of these evil team because many know by experience what this evil team will do to their loved once. Whistleblower you have have the blessings of many since you blessed them
ReplyDeleteIt all the more saddening that while on one side LEF claims to preach and change millions, the core is only about stealing, But oh how difficult to make up grown ups change their mind and accept the open robbery in the LEF, Well meaning people just close their minds and hearts to actual facts.
ReplyDeletePlease can you mention how much bribe was offered and what type of coersion and threatening specifically so we will know how much more money is being used for illegal activities and what connection they have. Please include proofs if there is any so people will know how evil LEF is.
ReplyDeleteIf you all remember LD was threatening some one to be humble in an audio post. She was saying what will happen if we are not humble. Then why is it soooo hard to see that humilty or any humility from her and those who follow her guidance.
ReplyDeleteNext time a so-called "American cop" calls you, politely ask for his name and Department serial number. If he refuses, politely ask on what grounds he is refusing to identify himself.
ReplyDeleteIf he still does not want to give a satisfactory answer, ask him to crawl back into the hole he came from.
You can also complain to ACLU.org. American civil liberties union. A christian non profit organization who fight for the rights and justice for the individuals. They do a good job . You can send all your concerns and proofs to them.
DeleteThis is not true.
DeleteThe American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) is a nonpartisan, non-profit organization whose stated mission is "to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States."
ACLU is not a Christian outfit. Many of ACLU's actions do not promote Christian values at all.
Tell the cop that you'll call down the wrath of goad on him.
DeleteNice one (assuming that the wrath will be coming from the 'goad', as pronounced and promoted by John Daniel) !!!!!!
DeleteSorry it is ACLJ. Amecrican center for law and justice. The leading lawyer. Jay Sekulow is a stronf christian probably messianic christian not sure. Still ACLU also can help too though not christian.
ReplyDeleteYears ago, now, when the canadian LEF crashed, a certain long-term (now ex) member toughed it out and attended a meeting or two till they too cut ties with Daniels, Inc, John Daniel was praying against those who left : Lard, send forth the Angel of Death....True story. They are all still alive in Canada 20 years later.
ReplyDeleteShould be undeniable truth. The one who mentioned as not exposed in close circle of LD earlier in this site has the filthiest mouth. There is no dirty word left in dictionary. No place escapes their gossip no person they are honest with but never misses a chance to look like doing ministry. Think themselves very Godly like old time religeon. Curse everybody in prayer sor simple things even if some one talk to another person whom dont like just for their ego. No fault of anybody make hell of others life just to feel great. Sick sick sick. It all makes sence from they get it.
DeleteAnonymous June 12 @ 11.31am
DeleteDid John Daniel really pray, 'Lard!' Instead of 'Lord'. It sort of goes with his verbal references to 'Goad', instead of 'God' (check it out on the retreat videos, if you can bear to plough through hours of his wittering on about nothing much.....).
Or maybe 'Lard' was just a typo.........
Lard, like goad, is his special verbal inflection so I included it purposefully.
DeleteOh dear....'You shall not take the name of the lard your goad in vain....' does not have the same ring of authority , does it?
DeleteThe concept of calling down the wrath of 'goad' on those who choose to abandon what has become quite a Godless (goadless?) organisation is not only reprehensible, but interestingly complex.. Not surprising the victims are still alive and well.
One is reminded of the old movie in which a Roman soldier declaims, of Jesus on the cross, 'Surely this Man was the Son of 'guard'. Probably only Brits would find this curious/amusing.
The demons and monsters that these rogues are, it is not surprising that they are beckoning "Angel of Death" to come to their rescue. Wonder which "Ghost Gods"'they pray to perpetrate the kind of evil they are carry out in the name of God.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the person, who is a witness, related to me after they had prayed at this meeting, JJD prayed ; Lard, you've heard the prayer of the hypocrite...." This person, as they related to me, left the meeting and that their involvement with LEFI ended from then on. I was told by a reliable witness that when the Canadian folks were settling accounts to end LEFI Canada (legally) Joseph Daniel was sent by his dad to represent him. See anything wrong with this? Was Canada a work close to his heart? The answer to that is pretty obvious, no?
DeleteSettling any accounts involving Joshua Daniel and the LEF must have been tricky! Maybe Joseph Daniel was sent to be on the receiving end of the resulting flak. Abraham and Isaac without Divine intention or purpose.
DeleteThe concept of a (genuine) hypocrite identifying another (alleged) 'hypocrite' via his prayer also lends itself to interesting speculation.
Actually, after maybe some initial tension, the Canadians who were on the board assured JosD that their intentions were to make sure all the legalities were handled properly or amended as necessary-not to attack his father. These are/were some good men. I was told this by one of the participants in the meeting with the lawyer. If any Canadians detect any inaccuracies with my re-telling.or cd. give more detail please feel free to jump in.
DeleteCan you eduacte the readers on what exactly was the bone of contention for Canadian people and what made the Canadians boot LEF out of Canada? This will help us to build a case against them in the US. We know that Canada and Germany LEF centers were the cash cows for Daniel family ever since Joshua Daniel moved his huge family to US - 5 children by any account is huge. Lily Daniel was blasting in one of her May Retreat "sermons" that they moved to US without a pay check and medical insurance unlike other Indians who move to US with assured income. May we respectfully remind this old lady who may be suffering from dementia they had more than assured income as they ensured that Germans sponsored them for over 30 years and then Canadians. When both of these cash cows whithered away is when LD jumped into the field to work with IC to arrange for the loot money to come from India. Basically, this poor and innocent house wife now became the brain behind the schemes of looting LEF money to sponsor her good for nothing unmarried daughter and her useless son who is raising another huge family of 5 girls without a stable job. We wonder what John Daniel and his great wife were thinking when planning this huge family. I am sure that JJD was assured by his parents that the LEF that took care of Joshua Daniel's huge family is wealthy enough to sponsor John Daniel's huge family. May be they have enough money stacked away to support 4 more generations of Daniel family litter. Anybody there offended by the word " litter"? This comes as a pay back to the matriarach of LEF the great LD. Her highness's important advice to newly married couples from India is not be like villagers and start giving birth to children like cats do. Apparently she could not give the same advice to the cats in her own household??? Oh, these are royal cats!!! So, there may be some other rules that are game changers...
ReplyDeleteIt has always baffled me that Lily Daniel boasts so frequently of her husband 'having no pay check'. Even the apostle Paul worked as a tent maker to support himself, and there was no similarity between Joshua Daniel and the apostle Paul, any other apostle, or, indeed, any noteworthy man of God. Does Lily Daniel not realise that the Indians who move to guaranteed paid income in other countries are being responsible, whereas her husband's, indeed most of her family's, behaviour is irresponsible in the extreme?
DeleteCan she not see that her employed fellow Indians, whether expatriate or not, are dutifully providing for themselves and their families through hard work; that they are quite rightly able to provide a standard of living only in proportion to their industriousness, whereas she and her family have lived for decades by the sweat of other people's brows at a standard of living few of her compatriots enjoy (and certainly not those 'evangelists' who have naively obeyed her husband's orders to 'learn faith', apparently by making themselves destitute in the interest of her family's dubious 'fellowship')?
I have known truly godly men who have sought to promote the Gospel in other places, and have been at least in part supported by others. One was a doctor specialising in eye surgery. He ran a mission hospital in a difficult Moslem country; a quiet man who never, ever boasted about his 'humbleness'. He died young from overwork, but not before returning to his own country when the government took over his mission hospital, and going back to work as a routine surgeon. The level of support he had received whilst a missionary was decided by others, and he and his family lived very simply. He was loved by all for his gentleness and graciousness towards those whom he served and to whom he preached the gospel. He never saw crowds flocking to his ministry, but his legacy of love and service lives on in the lives of those who still follow his quiet example. His eldest son has followed in his footsteps. What a contrast!!!!
Without a miracle (a real miracle of the Holy Spirit, not the kind of spectacle Joshua Daniel boasted about) Lily will not understand what true Christian service is, and will not try to put thingss right.
Indian LEF followers, surely you are more honest and intelligent than the Daniels in these matters? Stop giving your hard-earned money and assets to LEF and the Daniels and their henchman. Walk away now. I am in the process of looking for good, honest, doctrinally sound fellowships in India who will welcome you. It may take a while, but watch this space........
Who paid for all their lavish life. They went to USA on their own. Still lef paid for the whole team for all their back and forth travel all over the world, star hotels, world class cusines, first class education and medical, drivers and helpers to do household work ,furnished their houses. What else bill they have to pay for. All these not only for no spiritul growth but to replace the ruling with goondas, to encourage fake religeon, to oppress the innocents LD and co learn from people like Bro Sathy , Dr Jaysinghs and thousands who could have been lot richer but content and never complaining though you are thriving using their work. Three generations of you and your team looted generations of peopls sacrifice and lives. Still complaining. What do preach about Israleits complaining in the desert. Or is the lesson and rules are only for others as usual. There are no christian organization this corrupt in all over the world.
DeleteThe following website should give you information about sound, self-governing churches in India. I have not investigated them in detail, and there may be others in the pipeline following my enquiries.
ReplyDeleteThose looking for an alternative place of worship which is doctrinally Biblical, and not part of any state church or overarching denominational control may find a solution here.
(if it takes a while to find somewhere, you can in the meantime find good teaching on the SermonAudio.com. website).
http://www.reformedreader.org/rbindia.htm
Also try www.irfa.org.au. This gives information about properly governed (in this case on Presbyterian lines) churches in India with sound doctrine.
DeleteDear Brother what have you done to save the people of LEF and what have you done to those rouges and thieves, Why cant you file a case?
ReplyDeleteHere is a website containing the addresses of more churches in India where you should get sound teaching and they will not be after all your money. The Daniel family will no doubt have tried to warn you off good churches by saying that only LEF is 'deep enough' and preaches the truth. This is, and always has been, an untruth given to you because they want to keep building their 'empire'.
ReplyDeleteHowever you should be selective in where you worship. Forget all the superfluous nonsense you have been fed in LEF when you try a different church. Check out the preaching against the Bible, not against LEF propaganda. There will be truths that you have not been taught in LEF. Most of the churches I am suggesting hold to well-known Confessions of Faith, such as Westminster, or the 1689 Baptist Confession. You should be able to discuss anything freely with the pastor or elder without being bullied into submission.
It is never easy to find the church that best caters to your needs, and which, eventually, you will feel confident to serve freely and wholeheartedly. Remember, Christians are members of the worldwide Body of Christ; membership of individual fellowships is biblical and helpful, and we should not keep 'church-hopping' in a whimsical manner. But there are all sorts of reasons why we may feel led to change our place of worship, and God has made us entirely free to do so. However if we are in a fellowship which has become cultish, and where there is no accountability in leadership or financial matters, then we are called to separate from that fellowship, even if not everybody associated with it is part of the evil. We are eternally members of the worldwide Body of Christ, but not of any one group on earth; that is a matter of choice.
God bless those of you who see the need to separate from error and evil, and look for a better spiritual base from which to serve Him. I will keep posting alternatives as I find them, or they are suggested to me by reliable brethren. I cannot entirely guarantee that the info. is up-to-date or correct.
https://en.m.wikipaedia.org/wiki/Reformed_Baptist__Fellowship_of_India
It is extremely unethical of the Joshua Daniel Family to directly spend the offerings for their personal needs and at the same time deny giving even a single rupee to the suffering evangelist families. Only exceptionally spiritually dead people will behave like this.
ReplyDeleteOn top of all that to proclaim, that JD never had any pay cheque is really shocking. So they assume that lakhs of people who are in LEF are ignorant of their evil designs and they looted the believers for nearly three generations and the story continues..........
DeleteSenier Mrs and Mr Daniel sacrificed, loved people both inside and outside family, wished well for others encouraged others to do well. Only the generation starting with LD and Co and their generation ruined LEF by ignoring , twisting and manipulating Gods word and hus work.. Ruined many Gods childrensvlife for generations. LD and Co tried everything outside Nothing worked for them Hence controll others keep them under by not letting them do anything just make them feel better than others. But act like they sacrificed for LEF.
ReplyDeleteThe trouble is that Mr. N. Daniel did not encourage converts to set up their own independent, self governing churches with leaderships chosen by the membership, and Biblical church discipline that applied to both leaders and members.
ReplyDeleteEven in his day there seems to have been a kind of idolising of him and his wife in operation. He may not have abused people in the way that his son and family have, and are, but he bears at least some of the responsibility for what has happened. He left thousands of dependent, often simple followers vulnerable to the wolves and hirelings both in and out of his family. It is the duty of any missionary or evangelist to teach the doctrine of the church, especially the local church. Therefore it is wrong for people to praise Mr. N. Daniel and his wife as if they had no blame, even of they were not objectionable in the way that the next generation is. JUST LEAVE THIS CORRUPT FELLOWSHIP INSTEAD OF CONSTANTLY TRYING TO APPORTION BLAME. LEF is cultish, and that is enough got any genuine Christian to 'shake the dust off his/her feet' and depart.
No dought LEF is more than cult for many it is concentration camp. Even after this much exposing i am not sure even 5 percent is out. But senior Daniel passed away very early before it could get big. Even many many years after his death they were still worshipping in tiny shed. Many things were kept from her. She may not have known what is hoing on. LD cunningly diverted all the attention towards family problems used low level gossipers , manipulaters, oppressers and thieves. I sm very sure now if they dont follow bible it is convenient to keep them under. The people who follow the same style as her are given higher position and access. Their followers do thecsame thing inside and outside family. They have the same religeon use others to come up in position and drop them when they get another. Filthy manipulted stories about whom they used and dropped if questioned abuse more but wont answer. These kind of people though Mrs Daniel dont allow and asked them to repent. They continue with big positions because of LDs support. LD is run by such peopke with the support of LD but Mrs Daniel was kept from the truth. She will never allow these corruption
DeleteAnonymous commented on June 17, 2015 8:41 AM
Delete“The trouble is that Mr. N. Daniel did not encourage converts to set up their own independent, self governing churches with leaderships chosen by the membership, and Biblical church discipline that applied to both leaders and members……. JUST LEAVE THIS CORRUPT FELLOWSHIP INSTEAD OF CONSTANTLY TRYING TO APPORTION BLAME. LEF is cultish, and that is enough got any genuine Christian to 'shake the dust off his/her feet' and depart.
I do not know how long you are associated with the LEF, and how much you had personally suffered; but all that you say is – LEF is cultish and not a church, it is not biblically based, and the church you attend is actually a church and biblically based. You tried in the past to tell JD and LD about some things you thought they should listen to, but they did not. “
I guess you are retired and did not have anything else to do. Pl. use your time in a more fruitful way helpful to you and others too.
June 17 8:41. It dies not matter whether you personally suffer or not when you see evil done in this scale especially to the of ministry andboppressing the once who gave their lives and to innocent once who can not speak for themselves , families are ruined you should mot keep quiet. Even when you have to stay alone you need stand up for the injustice towards innocent people . According to bible it is evil when you dont call evei by its name evil which we find in LEF
DeleteAnonymous 17 June 11.23am : I think a clue to the present state of LEF is in what you have posted, that old Mrs. Daniel 'would not have allowed such things'. In a biblically governed local fellowship it would not be up to any one woman, or any one man, or any one married couple, or any other person or persons not appointed to leadership by the fellowship members, to allow or not allow anything. Every decision or matter of discipline would ultimately be put to the whole membership. There would be an agreed statement of faith and church government, to which every member, including preachers, elders, and deacons, would be bound. I am not in a position to comment on Mrs. Daniel senior because I never knew her personally. I expect you are right in saying that she and her husband would have disapproved of the present behaviour in LEF. My point is that by continuing to take power to themselves and not delegating and teaching their converts how to set up a biblical church, Mr. and Mrs. Daniel senior left the door open for what is happening now - the root cause of which is unauthorised power being freely and damagingly exercised by unsuitable individuals.
DeleteAnonymous 12.32 pm: it is not clear to me whether you agree or disagree that LEF is cultish. I was associated with it for a sufficient number of years to justify making such a judgement on the basis of comparing what I saw and heard with the precepts of Scripture; and the biblical way of dealing with wrongdoing is first to approach the wrongdoers in person. If you disagree, then you are either a Daniel supporter, or you need to acquaint yourself with what defines cultishness. The many posts on this site and on the Suniemi site provide more than sufficient evidence that LEF has become a cult, without recourse to my contribution. You may not care what happens to the many people whose lives have been made miserable by LEF and the Daniels. Maybe you have a vested interest in the continuation of this sad situation? I do care. That is why I repeatedly urge the sufferers to quit LEF and find churches where they will be truly valued and not abused, and why I explain the biblical reason for this. That is the only solution to their plight. What are you doing to help them?
I am not sure why you would assume that I am retired, but even if I were, it would make no difference to the reality of the sad plight of LEF worshippers. If you are allergic to retired people, why did you allow yourself to be dominated by an eighty-six year old man, and why are you still allowing yourself to be manipulated by his eighty year old wife?
Senier Daniels were loved and respected by everybody to this day. They sacrificed their lives. All the preachers of thosevdays loved and respected each other. Just lije Senior Daniels many gave up their will and surrendered to Gods work. Even though tgere was not accountability there was no forcing and oppression. People like Mr.Eddy rajarathnam , his brother and theircwives were such loving people . Gossip, abuse, control deception creaped in through obviously through LD. Few political people identified this 3-4 decades ago and worked their way up by following the style that will please LD. Because of the love of christ and trust no one suspected the evil behind the closed doors. That is why the close circle to LD has no personnal testimony . They just say what is dictated to them When they go home they are worst than pagons and politicians.
DeleteAnonymous June 17 9.07pm.
DeleteIt is sad when unscrupulous politicians creep into Christian groups and take advantage of the love and well-meaning effort previously exhibited by others. However it is still a lesson to believers that if we do not receive and encourage the preaching of the 'whole counsel of God' in our pulpits, and do not order our fellowships in a Scriptural manner, this is what happens. Accountability is fundamental to our faith and practice in this world. The Bible teaches that we are individually accountable to God, corporately (as churches) accountable to God, and individually and corporately accountable to each other as Christians. The LEF, under the original Mr. and Mrs. Daniel, seems to have majored on love and personal holiness, without teaching and putting into practice the God-given, biblical structure for the government of churches which should have enabled such love and respect to continue, unhampered by the creeping in of greed and power lust (which evils were present even in the infant church. Look at John's third epistle, and what he says about Diotrephes. Look at the letters to the seven churches in Rev. chaps. 2 - 4).
In other words, the first Daniels, however real their zeal for holiness, conveyed a 'lop-sided' message, and what was missing from that message is what has allowed evil-doers to take advantage of LEF believers. LEF people had been taught to accept a leadership in which they had had no say, and which was in no way accountable to them as fellow, and equal, members of Christ's Body. If they had any doubts, they were taught to suppress them because 'you must not question or criticise God's anointed', that is, the self-appointed, dynastic 'leadership'. I would be interested to know whether this idea was taught by the first Mr. and Mrs. Daniel, or whether it was appropriated and integrated into LEF philosophy by their son Joshua. Whatever may be the case, this is a gross misrepresentation of whom the Bible means by 'God's anointed'. It refers only to Jesus Christ, and for anyone else to assume that description is a blasphemy.
In short, the Bible warns us to be critical (in a healthy way) of what we hear, as were the Bereans, '...for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light' (2Cor. 11 : 12- 15). By all means acknowledge and be grateful to God for the positive attributes of the first Mr. and Mrs. Daniel, but do not let these blind you to the defects in their ministry. Even those in leadership - especially those in leadership - should continue to learn more about Biblical truth as the years pass. Read accounts of the lives and ministries of 'greats' such as Spurgeon. They adapted their understanding and preaching as the Spirit enlightened them. A static understanding and ministry is dangerous.
Despite the sneers of Anonymous June 17 12.32, I would still urge you not to try to patch up a corrupt organisation from which the Holy Spirit seems to have departed, but to seek other, properly-governed places of worship preaching sound doctrine. You will take with you whatever you learnt that is positive from LEF 'old-timers', and hopefully you will experience a new freedom in the practice of it amongst those who do acknowledge their accountability, both to God and to you.
Agree. LEF is not the place to get closurevto God. In fact all who are close to LD are hard hearted, arrogant robots. It looks like they are already became like nephilims who can never get their God given conscience back. LD not only ruined senior Daniels ministry destroyed their name. She is doing everything opposite to what they taught. Senier Daniels never asked other not to go to other churches. But under LD some of the spouses are severly abused for going to other preachers but they secretly use and steal members of other churches claiming LEF is the only way to heaven. But now we know their standars. Her followers are much more cunning. If you watch the lives of people who followed senier Daniels they loved other, there were sooooo many high standard preachers whose lives spoke to others. There were miracles healing, raising from dead, people repenting for jealisy,lies, returning what they stole. Senier Daniels encouraged everybody to do great things for God even if the things they could not do. Did not suppress others. Minintries like Jesus Calls , Baktsingh and few more derived from Senior Daniels ministry. They are doing better than LEF spiritually , in loving others and doing great things for the community. Listen to the destimony of the singer Hema John who found the Lord through Jesus calls minitry . There are so many outside like that. All are domino result of senier Daniels. LEF lost its light because of a small group og Greedy , lustful, liers who became robots with no conscience. Money and power is their God. But workbof senier Daniels is still continuing bearing fruits outside LEF with powerful lives and testimony for the LORD.
DeleteLEF and its ten thousand crore properties and more may be confistigated .
ReplyDeleteIt can be undertaken by government or any other church.
All current leadership Leadership will be made dummies and null.
No property may be in Any member related to any LEF member or leadership family.
All may go to Government estate.
Anonymous @ June 19th, 2015 @7:41
DeleteAll the five possibilities you have mentioned remains a distant dream. Inspite of the Whistleblowers best efforts not even a single legal action is taken so far .....even after pin pointing so many serious allegations which includes human right violations, economic offences, cheating etc.etc...So what we understand is when crores and crores of money are involved , the justice will never be done. In India and elsewhere, the concept of independent churches has grown in the recent decades and there are hundreds of pastors from independent churches whose families are enjoying a luxurious life in the U S all at the expense of the congregation. LEF is nothing new, but the followers wrongly assumed that LEF has an "indepth religion" compared to other churches or independent groups so the mistake is on the followers .
Anonymous 20 June 5.38am
ReplyDeleteI am not sure what you mean by 'independent churches' whose pastor's families live luxurious lives on the US at the congegation's expense. The kind of independent churches which I know about and which I have recommended as being an option for abused LEF followers have small, very local congregations whose pastors live amongst them, wherever that may be. If there is a designated dwelling for the pastor and family, it belongs legally to the church as a whole, not to the pastor. There are safeguards in the church rules and constitution which preserve that building for the use of any pastor that the church may vote to accept, at any appropriate time in its history. If there is a need to make alterations to it, or even sell it, the church members at that time, not the pastor, make such decisions. The pastor's stipend and expenses are decided and administered by persons designated by, and on behalf of, the membership, which also has the power to remove a pastor - or elder, or deacon - if breaches of church discipline are agreed to be serious enough to require this (committed Christians who have been attending for a prescribed period may ask for membership. Their request is put to the existing membership, who vote on whether it would be right to admit them to membership at this point; normally the eldership or two mature church members will have interviewed the applicant beforehand, and their report will be submitted to the existing membership at the next church meeting. Following majority agreement, applicants will be formally welcomed into membership and given 'the right hand of fellowship' at the next church service in which the Lord's supper is celebrated).
There is no opportunity in this situation for a pastor to live elsewhere and wrongly profit from those he has been elected to serve. I think your concept of an 'independent church' may be a misnomer, and/or something I have not encountered. In which independent churches in India or elsewhere have you come across this misappropriation of the congregation's offerings? Could you give a concrete example, please?
The only extra 'depth' on offer and available in the LEF is the depth of corruption which currently exists.... caveat emptor!
There are quite a few issues facing the Church in India today.
ReplyDeleteCould you move on and may be form a church where you practice what you think are principles of church governance that should be implemented.
This is going no where.
If only one more person has been put wise to the evil in LEF, and been set free from being dominated by LEF, then this blog has already gone somewhere, and has been worth it.
ReplyDeleteThere is a move to make it appear that Senior Mr. and Mrs. Bro. Daniel were pure and straight and that somehow the LEF wandered from the standards under JJD, LD, JD, KP, and WP. It is not true.the LEF was always crooked, Let me illustrate some honestly true instances.
ReplyDeleteOne District judge / sub judge, met Mr. Daniel and exclaimed in wonder, “Oh Mr. Daniel how much God has blessed you, the furniture’s in your house are so splendid, even in my house I don’t have them!”. Mr. Daniel immediately said, “How can you see the furniture”, but didn’t deny that the furniture’s were of fine quality, who paid for them?
Mr. Daniel always used to preach, “Don’t expect any money from abroad to preach the Gospel, There is enough money in India”. Many Lady Members in his congregation did give him their gold ornaments. Mr. Daniel did receive them and spent in whatever way he pleased.
The Bishop at Madras asked Mr. Daniel, “Mr. Daniel How do you receive the offerings and gifts meant for God and spend them, when the money should be handled by the Church”. Mr. Daniel replied “Did the Bishop knew, with what difficulty I pay my rent”. Notice he didn’t disagree with the bishop.
Then the story of Dr. Milk (name changed). Dr.Milk was very highly educated and Mr. Daniel preached to him “Give God the offerings and tithes and gifts (10% +10+ +5). Dr.Milk immediately sat down wrote and calculated all the earnings he had made till them and worked out the amount. It was a huge amount for him. But the messages continued and Dr.Milk told, “let me get a loan and pay”, Mr. Daniel told him, “No.you should not get a loan and pay”, (the brother of Dr.Milk told him “God doesn’t want your money, He wants you”. He was ignored and Mrs.Milk offered her diamond necklace and Dr and Mrs Milk sold it and gave the amount to Mr. Daniel. (The question is OK the tithe belonged to God but How did Mr. Daniel receive it on behalf of God?)
If you have any information, please give it here. Decades have passed and maybe it is time for some skeletons to come out of the cupboard, which will help us explain how LEF has come to this present state.
DeleteI WD. LIKE TO CALL UPON ANY CANADIAN FOLKS PRIVY TO THE INNER DEALINGS OF LEF CANADA AND THE PROBLEMS THEREIN TO PLEASE SHARE IT SO AS TO ENLIGHTEN PRESENT LEFers OF THE LACK OF INTEGRITY SHOWN ABROAD BY THE DANIELS IN THEIR PERSONAL AND FINANCIAL DEALINGS IN NORTH AMERICA. ALTHO I KNOW A FEW THINGS, I FEEL IT BETTER THAT SOMEONE TRULY IN THE KNOW SHD. SPEAK AS I WANT TO AVOID SPEAKING ON OTHERS' BEHALF AND CAUSING EMBARRASSMENT OR GIVING OUT INACCURATE INFORMATION.
ReplyDeleteThis was from our North American.
DeleteA few things have been moderated in order to not wrongly target people who were already maligned by Daniel clan. Also, we need to ensure that the focus of this blog is to expose the wrong doings of Daniel family which to date is exploiting the poor and vulnerable and not to exacerbate the wounds of people who have been hurt beyond repair in some cases by Daniel family's conniving manipulations.
This is a rather long story which happened a long time ago (1996). Let me give a synopsis of the state of the LEF in Canada then and the apparent reasons for its breakdown.
Part 1:
There were two places of LEF activity, Toronto and Waterloo (about 120 km from Toronto). The groups in the two places knew each other well as many of them had studied (university) in Waterloo. Both groups had a combined regular attendance of roughly 40 people. The Toronto group had a centre, purchased in 1992. The Waterloo group met mainly at the university. Both groups were mainly people 40 and under. This was comprised mainly of young families and several single young men. The local leader was Chris Perumalla who had come to Waterloo in 1980 for his studies. He was from Hyderabad and was very close to Jubilee Raj, the evangelist for the Hyderabad LEF.
The US LEF was much less developed. The Daniels had lived in South Bend, Indiana for many years. John and Joseph Daniel eventually got jobs in Detroit, Michigan. John purchased a house on the outskirts of Detroit which would double as a centre. The main floor was used for his family while the basement was developed into a meeting room and a recording studio. Besides the Daniels, very few people ever came to their meetings. There were isolated individuals living in different parts of the US (Ohio, Illinois, New York, Minnesota, etc.) who occasionally came to retreats, but very little other activity.
There are two events which, at least superficially, were catalysts for the breakdown in Canada. First, JD called for a meeting on June 30, 1996 for LEF leaders in the US and Canada. Here it was announced that Jubilee Raj, the longtime LEF evangelist in Hyderabad with a thriving centre and expanding ministry had left along with his family due to some allegations aired against him. This was relevant in that Chris Perumalla considered Jubilee Raj his spiritual father and regularly received counsel from him. At this point, only speculation can be offered as to what was motivating people and what was the actual truth about the allegations against the family in Hyd which left LEF. Many wild and conflicting ideas were subtly aired: Was Daniel clan feeling insecure that Jubilee, who was the favorite of N. Daniel's angling to take over the LEF?? JD later claimed that Jubilee had made himself too much a centre of focus. JD and JJD also claimed that Chris had done the same thing himself in Canada. Were JD and jjd were and insecure that Chris has become head of international operations of North America? Now that Canadian ministry was growing, did JD want to sideline Chris Perumalla so that his son JJD can take over? In June, it seems that Jubilee had his daughter married in a non-LEF wedding without JD's permission. In a late-summer
issue of Christ is Victor, JD stated that Jubilee had left, had his daughter
married, and never told him about it. The irony seems to have been lost on JD
that he accused this man of seeking preeminence and yet he was chastised for not seeking JD's permission for the marriage of his daughter. The main point here is that Chris Perumalla's LEF perspective and position was shifting.
Part 2 of North American insight:
DeleteThe second catalyst for change came during the August retreat held in Ohio. Concerns spawning from the fall of Jubilee Raj and its relation to Chris Perumalla (and his wife Phebe), both from the Daniels and some of the Canadians, were made. One family (McLachlin) who had been active in the Canadian LEF for over 10 years decided to leave the retreat part way through. Within days this family decided to leave the LEF altogether. Their reasons were never made explicit, but it is safe to say that some of their issues with the LEF were longstanding. Although all LEFers are taught to separate themselves from "backsliders", when the JD was dismissive of this family, the other Canadians would not ignore this. This prompted an open dialogue among the Canadians, something never before seen.
The rest of the story will have to wait for another time.
Daniel clan was feeling insecure that Jubilee, who was a born preacher in Telugu (even though he came from Tamil Nadu). So the dirty tricks department was used to remove him. He was the natural successor to Mr.N.Daniel. JD wanted to sideline Chris Perumalla so that his son JJD can take over , the Daniel clan will never allow any challengers, it is a (LEF) money flourishing family business how will they allow it to go out of their grasp
DeleteHow extraordinary that Joshua Daniel claimed that Jubilee Raj had made himself 'too much the centre of focus'!!! Joshua Daniel spent his whole life making sure that he himself was made, and would continue to be made, the centre of focus. John Daniel is now (rather lamely) trying to emulate his father in becoming the centre of focus. Betty Daniel is trying to become a different centre of focus. Lydia Daniel seems to realise that the visible 'centre of focus' position is now overcrowded, so is spending her time seeking advice from various 'motivational gurus' as to how she can be rich and influential in the business world (see whom she admires on her Facebook page). She may well be practising with your money, LEF worshippers, since her name now apparently appears on various LEF boards and property ownership documents.
DeleteIt would seem that these members of the Daniel family have overlooked the declaration of John the Baptist in John 3:30, or the fact that Jesus Himself rebuked two of his own disciples for seeking pre-eminence, advising them that the 'first would be last' in heaven. These Daniels have, in addition, chosen to ignore or re-interpret Jesus's warning that 'the love of money is at the root of all evil', although in their case it seems to have been proven to be so.
It would be very nice if Mr. Jubilee Raj would comment on these happenings (these happened nearly 30 years ago) just to clear the air, even anonymously
DeleteI have just examined Lydia Daniel's Facebook page.
DeleteDidn't Joshua Daniel decry Facebook and tell his followers to have nothing to do with it? Yet his wife Lily and daughters Betty and Lydia all have, or had, Facebook pages in his lifetime.
Lily deleted hers when it was publicised here that she had posted on it that she had acquired 'lots of loot'. Before that, I believe she even had a picture of herself and Joshua on it (the man who disapproved of Facebook!).
Betty uses hers to publicise herself and her 'spiritual' activities, including the Indian TV programme she now hosts, in competition with her brother John's and mother's LEF endeavours. At least the Word of God appears now and then, although she is much taken up with alleged 'miracles', in which her personal prayer often seems to play a prominent part.
Lydia's Facebook page is a curious mixture of secular motivational speakers and male movie stars (usually muscle-bound). One can only guess at the purpose of the muscle-bound movie men in her life, but the speakers seem to be focused on helping people to become rich and powerful. No mention of God, and certainly no mention of Jesus.
Shouldn't this information be setting off alarm bells amongst those who still insist on idolising Joshua Daniel as a 'spiritual giant', along with his wife and progeny?
Mr. Jubilee Raj is no more to see all this drama of LEF. In any case, it may be of interest to note that Mr. Jubilee Raj's daughter was married to none other than Chris Perumalla's younger brother. This can surely help connect the doubts as to how insecure JD and clan felt about Mr. Jubileeraj's family becoming powerful and the entire Daniel family plotted the whole thing against Mr. Jubileeraj and his family.
DeleteJust to mention in Canada many of the books common to the LEFI were translated which of course costs money. The Canadians started to get input from the native speakers that the translations were of a very low quality and rendered the books almost unreadable. This became an issue as JD, according to my understanding, wd. set such things up himself. Can anyone with experience regardless of which continent you live on comment?
ReplyDeleteDear Whistle blower,
ReplyDeleteWho is Mr. Dhamodhar..? Is he belongs to Daniel Clan ? Where do he stay and what is his history and his role in LEF ?
Mr.Dhamodhar is a civil engineer / contractor, who is in charge of the slave battalions (AKA evangelist trainees) who are used to build the LEF centers so that the Daniel clan can loot more money. He is suspected to make regular payouts to the family. and his rise has been meteoric in the LEF
DeleteAnonymous June 22 @ 5.10pm
ReplyDeleteDo you mean translated into French, since I believe JD mostly wrote in English anyway? Although he invariably advertised himself as 'Joshua Daniel MA ' (and this was allegedly a Masters in English?), as a language and literature academic myself, I was surprised to find his books to be so badly written. Not only was the language inept, but the content was naively self-congratulatory in a barely disguised way. If a translator is given a bad text to start with, it is almost impossible to produce a good translation without rewriting it, which any translator used by Joshua Daniel would be no more competent to do than he apparently was himself! This was one of the factors that alerted me to the possibly general falseness of his persona, and the resulting questions surrounding his ministry. He seemed to need to be in absolute control of everything, whether or not he possessed the required skills.
Something else puzzling is the 'Dr. Joshua Daniel' title which he seemed either to assume for himself, or possibly had bestowed on him by his admirers. As far as I know he never acquired a doctorate; it would presumably have had to have been in his undergraduate subject (English?), but he would never have had the written language skills needed for a doctoral thesis - at least in any reputable university. That is very clear from the sub-standard nature of his books (which, not surprisingly, he had to publish himself; although unlike most people reduced to publishing their own efforts, he did not have to pay for it, but could use the money and unpaid labour of unquestioning LEF attenders). I believe that 'Dr.' was even added to the current marker on his grave; his daughter Betty put a photo of this on her Facebook site in order to complain that LEF people had not looked after his grave as she thought they should (in proportion to his importance, I think she was implying); in fact somebody pointed out to her that in India graves are left to 'settle' for a year or so before any permanent memorials are undertaken.
Someone posted here earlier that Joshua Daniel used to say that he was accepted to study at a London Bible institution. Which one is not clear, but it seems he said that he was allowed leave from it because he was 'involved in a revival', or something equally unlikely. I think such claims belong with his frequent assertions on stage that his son John was vice-chair (or vice-principal?) of General Motors, which claim John's Linkedin profile clearly contradicts.
One again has to marvel at this man's evidently deep need to exaggerate the achievements and status of himself and his family. Ironically, I can still picture him on the platform, reminding his listeners with tedious frequency of how much he 'humbled himself'!
So sad........how can people still be so taken in by it all?
Dr. Joshua Daniel,
Deletethe general information is that Dr.Whitson Paul got him the degree, may be in the late 1980's. No one I know, knows from which university JD got it or for what studies, highly possible that this Phd was from a money for degree shop
Among very rich billionaires JJD and family were the poorest, and among the proudest families he was the humblest, what a fraud
DeleteAnonymous 23 June 11.52pm
Delete'Degree for money shop': I didn't think of that! I wonder if Whitsun Paul got his from the same source.......
The desire for what is thought of as a 'status symbol', obtained from any source, whether legitimate or not, is quite nauseating when exhibited by men like Joshua Daniel, who claim to be 'humble' Christian leaders.
Anonymous June 23 11.52 pm
DeleteIronic that LEF people's hard-earned cash probably bought JD's fake doctorate!
AFAIK, the degree was a honorary doctorate. It's not too hard to get such degrees if you have right connections and or money.
DeleteA lot of fraud comes from a certain region of India and it is not at all surprising that the Daniels come from that region.
https://www.travel-impact-newswire.com/2011/04/wikileaks-cables-expose-indian-visa-fraud-tactics/
Having looked online I am amazed to see how easy it is to fake doctoral degrees in India! It seems clear that this is what Joshua Daniel did, or had done for him. This, together with all the other evidence that is coming to light about Mercedes cars and making his ingenuous disciples drive him and his family for free at their own expense, together with all the lies told about his own and his family's achievements, and the deliberate concealment of what (and whom!) tithes and offerings were used for, demonstrates just how worldly this self-appointed 'preacher' really was.
DeleteWhat Gary and North American have written about John Daniel's behaviour, openly cursing and calling down 'the angel of death' in a prayer meeting on those who got wise to him and his family, and left LEF, shows that the son is becoming worse than the father (if that is possible). The elder daughter is hoping to cover up her chequered marital and non-marital past with 'super-spirituality' on an Indian TV programme, and by assuming the role of 'pastor' and purveyor of 'miracles' alongside her third husband. Who knows what the younger daughter is up to, apart from collecting pics of movie 'hunks' , and learning how to be rich and powerful from dubious 'motivational speakers'?
Of the other siblings we know little, except that James had the integrity and courage to speak frankly about his father and the LEF goondas at his memorial service, and that Joseph's wife considers her husband unspiritual.
These people will always (with the exception of James) find a way to leech off others. DEAR PEOPLE OF LEF, AT LEAST YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE ONE OF THE 'OTHERS' ANY MORE IF YOU TURN YOUR BACKS ON THEM NOW AND WALK AWAY. Are they any different from the moneymakers in the temple whose stalls Jesus turned over in righteous anger?
Re books: I noticed that John Daniel's home at 7284 Angle Road, Northville (documented both as belonging to LEF, and as his private business premises, but refinanced on 17 September 2012) is advertised as a place where people should send cheques if they want to purchase LEF books. Not sure whether Joshua Daniel ever established a copyright, in which case he or his heirs would be entitled to appropriate fees from the sales, but since they are published by a privately-owned printer (LEF) what happens to proceeds from the sale of these books? Do those involved in the printing process receive remuneration? If not, are the Daniel family getting all the profit from the books, even though they could not be made available without the skills and toil of those who physically produce them?
ReplyDeleteprivately-owned printer (LEF)
DeleteThe LEF is owned by the Daniel tribe now by Lily Daniel,
what happens to proceeds from the sale of these books?
It directly goes to the pockets of the Daniel clan
Do those involved in the printing process receive remuneration
Nothing they will receive, except maybe an educated wife
are the Daniel family getting all the profit from the books, even though they could not be made available without the skills and toil of those who physically produce them?
Yes, the Daniel family eats up all the money from the LEF, shameless people
Mr. Joshua Daniel publicly claimed that he did not receive remuneration for his books. I’m not sure if he cleverly used the term “penny” so that he could get away with rupees & dollars! There is an allegation that Mrs. Lily Daniel used to go the book shop in the retreats and demand money. If this allegation is true, the money received this way would more than compensate for book royalties. Printing press personnel are usually “Bible college” brothers and so don’t expect them to get paid! I have heard that Joshua Daniel got royalties from the message sold on cassette/CD/DVD. Maybe he also took “royalties” from the TV broadcast. Hope his grandchildren were not paid for singing in the retreats!
DeleteSome of you could form the equivalent of a 12-Step support group, for instance, in Madras.
ReplyDeleteYou could hold services (Sun., Wed., Sat.) and practice ideas of church governance you have.
Anonymous June 23 7.56 am
DeleteBiblical church government does not come from 'ideas', but from focused and dedicated Bible study (something which Joshua Daniel clearly didn't do much of).
People who post sensibly here do not need the equivalent of Alcoholics Anonymous to enable them to meet for worship. They have broken the LEF addiction, some with the help of this blog. People who still support LEF, and defend the Daniel tribe, may well need special help in breaking their addiction. Ex-LEF people will be glad to help you if you get in touch.
Anonymous June 23, 2015 7:56 AM, you can boot lick the Daniels till they kick you off, please open your eyes before you permanently close them, You are not aware of the fraud, at least please keep quiet and enjoy the old salt biscuits given to you by the Daniel clan
ReplyDeleteFirst fruits
ReplyDeleteMr.N.Daniel interpreted the words first fruits in the bible as giving to God (him) for ministry (to the Daniels) the money earned in the first day of the month. One Dr.Vijaysingh (name changed) always gave him the money earned from his clinic on the first of every month and Mr.N.Daniel told him . "Brother now the spirit of money has left you", "Even after my death my prayers will follow you (and bless you)" Are these words as per the Bible you decide
Anonymous June 24 1.33am
DeleteIs this really true? Did he really extract money from people by instilling in them the fear that they might otherwise be possessed by a 'spirit of money'? I always thought that the fact that Mr. N. Daniel's followers did not bury his body until it started to decompose, because they thought he was going to 'rise again', indicated some very weird teaching......
Well, do you suppose you could meet in Madras and form a group that could morph into a church of its own?
DeleteDo you think that will enable you practice principles of church governance as per scripture?
Anonymous June 25 @ 12.26pm
DeleteIt would be great if a group would meet in Madras and study the Bible and pray together, with a view to becoming a scripturally based and governed church. If it were physically possible, I would be delighted to join in and encourage Christian brothers to meet and look into matters of sound doctrine and leadership, and Christian sisters to support the brothers in doing so. Unfortunately I cannot be part of it in Madras because I am not there! There must be men and women in Madras who could do this, however, and that is why I and others encourage them through this website to break away from LEF domination and just do it. God will surely bless those who seek to worship Him in spirit and in truth, not hindered by the misdeeds which have dogged the LEF under Daniel leadership for so long.
There are some websites quoted earlier on Whistleblower which might help people looking for sound, evangelical, alternative places of worship in India, and I think Madras was mentioned. I would hope that there would be properly governed fellowships amongst those indicated on them. Good pastors and elders will always be willing to discuss their beliefs and how their churches are governed (and why) with enquirers.
Is there an evangelical wing of Church in So. India?
ReplyDeleteIt is in response to the person who asked on 27.6 if there are evangelical churches in S. India:
ReplyDelete'There are three previous posts here which give websites relating to properly governed evangelical churches in India. I am not sure how up-to-date they are, but I believe information about groups in S. India is included (at least in Chennai). There may be small groups that are not yet included. You should be enabled to make contact with someone can advise where groups are and how you can find them. There should be an email or even telephone number. You should eventually be able to discuss with someone from each group whether there are people in your area to meet with, and also what the statements of faith are, and how the groups are governed, with the biblical reasons for this. Small groups of believers who are interested in following the Bible very closely are better than large congregations where a lot of fuss is made about the singing and what is termed 'worship', whilst the doctrinally sound preaching of the Bible takes a back seat ; you can get 'lost', and sometimes not have much opportunity to talk frankly with the leadership. Beware if asking for money is prominent in the worship!'
Church of South India (CSI) was inaugurated on 27th September 1947, it was acclaimed as the most significant event in the Church Union movement, because for the first time after centuries of historic divisions, churches with Episcopal and non¬ Episcopal ministries were brought together in a united Episcopal church. Four different church traditions had been brought together in the CSI, Anglican (Episcopal), Congregational, Presbyterian and Methodist. All these churches had been established in India through the missionary work of churches in Europe, America and Australia, who had started their work in India at different periods from the beginning of the eighteenth century. More churches also joined, this union made it possible for the fragmented church to literally survive. The CSI is always blamed as large, inefficient, un-spiritual and a church with accepted corruption. But the reality is different, No one can steal the offerings in the church, they are counted by the treasurer, The Bishop himself cannot draw money without 2 signatures on the cheque. While incidences of robber bishops are known, most have been removed by the built in mechanisms and the strong written constitution. It is commonly felt that the CSI is mainly into maintenance of the existing churches and the evangelical focus is low, but good evangelization attempts are made especially by cooperating with para church organizations. You can see more at http://www.csisynod.com (one cannot compare the CSI with the LEF which is a totally corrupt family business)
ReplyDeleteThanks for the information. I went to a bookstore in Madras to look for Sadhu Sundar SIngh books in English and I saw and briefly leafed thru some testimony-type CSI books and liked them. It cd. be that perhaps the store was CLS. I don't know if CSI had anything to do with this....
DeleteHowever if you want a Christian group in which you and the other believers have direct control over matters, including who is appointed as pastor/elders, and what offerings are spent on, as well as an assurance of evangelical belief and practices (meaning sound doctrine), you would be better to look for independent local churches with a Baptist or Presbyterian or Evangelical or 'Free' title. Once you get into amalgamations of denominations and Bishops etc., the opportunities for corruption increase. In the episcopal system direct control is removed from local believers and groups. Of course LEF is an example of corruption that can develop outside of denominational systems when individuals take power for themselves, but this can be largely prevented by having an established local membership roll of like-minded believers, regular church meetings for all members, and every member being empowered to vote for or against whatever is put forward.
DeleteI would still recommend looking into the 3 websites posted here earlier. There are some such small groups working in all sorts of places, but sometimes you have to ferret around a bit to discover who and where.
Good to read that the Church of S. India is not as dubious as some people think. I know nothing about it, but someone else posted negative comments either here or on the Suniemi website.