Tuesday, March 08, 2016

HOW DID SOME GET OUT OF THIS DUBIOUS ORGANIZATION CALLED LEF...

Here is a personal narration of a person who broke away from LEF
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Please may we have more testimonies from people who have cut their connections with LEF? 

Here is mine:


When I first discovered LEF it was through a book shop outside of India. I was looking for a church group to worship with, and at that time the books sold there seemed largely sound, and the people who ran it seemed genuinely Bible-based. I was puzzled by a whole section devoted to an Indian man called Joshua Daniel whom I had never heard of, although I had been a Christian for some decades, and had attended a Bible College (a real one, nothing to do with LEF).
The group worshipping in the bookshop had no church structure in accordance with New Testament instructions (no elected pastor, elder, or deacon; no church membership; no Biblical disciplinary process). The preaching lacked doctrinal instruction or helpful historical content, and was always centred on condemnation of the hearer's sins and the life and activities of this man, Joshua Daniel, and his father. However there was an attractiveness about those who ran this group. They were kind, dedicated to what they were doing, and seemed to love the Word of God, and I came to regard them as valued friends and Christian brethren. The problem, increasingly, was this man, Joshua Daniel. He visited a couple of times a year in order to conduct meetings known as 'retreats'. He clearly expected to be treated with great reverence, as a man apart from the common mass of believers, a man with authority over people's lives (which God had clearly not given him!). His preaching was rambling and condemning and far too long, given the lack of content. He demanded long prayer meetings, in which people were encouraged to weep. He regarded such falsely induced emotional responses as evidences of the Holy Spirit's activity. His whole ministry was centred on bringing about what he considered to be revival. He never mixed freely with us. He claimed to have conducted healings and exorcisms which had no Biblical authentication. Whilst others would queue up to speak to him, I would avoid him (which was not difficult, as he spent little or no time outside of his quarters). I felt increasingly uncomfortable about the way that he was revered and placed on a pedestal, the way that he expected instant obedience, and seemed to get it from his bookshop disciples and visiting Indians.
It took me some years to realise that I could not continue to worship with a group which gave so much importance to a mere man, and an ungifted one at that (though he did seem to have a carnal ability to command undeserved allegiance). I asked questions about where the tithes and offerings went, and why they found it necessary to consult this man Daniel in the USA about not only minor matters concerning the bookshop etc., but, worryingly, about major decisions concerning their own private lives. None of my questions was answered satisfactorily. I wondered what the Daniels lived on in the USA, who paid for their frequent trips abroad, why they criticised from the pulpit other Indians who had gone abroad quite legitimately to further their careers and provide for their families, yet they themselves had set up home in the USA, apparently relying on money from these very same people they constantly criticised, ordinary LEF attenders.

I felt increasingly compromised in my Christian faith by my attendance at LEF. A couple who had been Daniel devotees since their youth (Joshua Daniel had brokered their marriage and sent them abroad to the bookshop) also began to express disquiet, and eventually politely and respectfully spoke to Joshua and Lily Daniel about their concerns. They were effectively bullied and threatened by Joshua and Lily, who implied that bad things would happen to them if they left LEF, including illness (one of the couple already suffered from a long-term, painful complaint). This was blackmail, undeserved cruelty. The man who was considered to lead the bookshop activities then used a preaching opportunity to condemn any who dared to call into question the activities or opinions of Joshua Daniel. It was at this point that I had to acknowledge that LEF was cultish and unbiblical, and that as a child of God I must separate myself from its evils. I therefore never attended another LEF meeting. I had looked into the writings of Joshua Daniel, which were always prominent in the bookshop. His books are of little worth, either spiritually, or in literary terms. Inevitably they are full of himself and his family history. They give the impression that he is known and respected in Christian circles, which is untrue. Neither did he ever undertake theological training in the UK, as he implied. His books are self-admiring and badly written, which is why no reputable Christian publisher would ever published them, and why Joshua Daniel had to set up his own printing press in order to have them distributed - an endeavour which apparently relies on the unpaid labour of his devotees.
I was approached later by Lily Daniel (I believe that Joshua Daniel did not have the courage to speak to me himself). I made careful notes of our conversation (over two hours), and sent her a record of it. She was quite unable to answer my questions about the bullying that went on, her husband's unwarranted interference in the private lives of LEF attenders, and many other matters I put to her. I never heard from the Daniels again, and the couple they had bullied stopped attending LEF and moved away. As far as I know they are healthy and happy and attending a genuine church, having realised, on their own admission, that the organisation, LEF, to which they had devoted most of their lives, their marriage, their children's welfare, and much more, was in fact unbiblical and damaging.
I occasionally visited the bookshop for some years; I had (and have) major concerns about those who continue there under the domination of the Daniels, especially the wives (although only one couple remains, another having moved further away, and apparently thus avoided such deep involvement). God has graciously given me, over the years, the sound Christian fellowship I sought, and I have never looked back. He has honoured the actions I undertook in respect of LEF.
I was so pleased to see the emergence of the blogs begun by Suniemi and LEF Whistleblowers. I had prayed for those still caught up in LEF, that by some means God might enlighten them. Whilst I feel that some of the many posts are wrongly motivated, and there are some exaggerations, I have been horrified, yet encouraged, to see that my concerns about LEF and the Daniels were fully justified, and that their wrongdoing is far worse and more widespread than I had realised. I am still fond of the bookshop folk, the few that remain, and long for them to realise the truth. I understand a little bit how ties of affection and family can stop people from separating themselves from cultish, corrupt organisations like LEF. There are also those who have a vested interest, who use LEF for their own worldly purposes. However in the end our loyalty is to God, not to human beings, however close to us. God will not hold us guiltless if we continue, by attending, supporting, and saying nothing, to encourage wolves in sheep's clothing to prey on the flock.

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Please share your own personal experiences of how you managed to get out and also how you coped with the withdrawal symptoms of getting away from this evil group. This will help many who are at the exit door but do not have the courage to walk out as the world outside to them is alien and unfamiliar...

76 comments:

  1. Just imagine raising your children in a family where your spouse and inlaws spit these kind of cruel words all your life if you don't support their corruption for their greed and lust for power. It's like living with demons. Yes Jesus does talk about demons. Too many demons to deal with in some of the LEF families. Wolves in sheep clothing. Only Jesus can deal with them.

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    1. No, you can disable them by turning your back on LEF yourself, and warning others.

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    2. Did not work. Got worst

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    3. Lost a 4 month pregnancy for not submitting to their power greed. Wont let even to listen to other preachers. But they go dverywhere to even pentecostal to expand their secret family ministry outside LEF.

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    4. Are you one of the many abused wives in LEF? Do you have family who would take you and your children in? Don't give up trying to escape. They are not demons - but they allow their own evil spirits to dominate them. It is easy for those of us who can more easily walk away to tell you to turn your back on LEF. We have not suffered as you clearly are suffering. We can only imagine how trapped you feel, but you must be brave and dignified. They are wrong and you are right. You are not alone in your situation. There are other ladies who are also being abused by LEF spouses and in-laws.

      Does anyone know of an organisation in India which helps women abused by their spouses? If so, please post contact details here for this lady.

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    5. Very complicated. Will do anything to expose these wicked greedy monsters or to escape them. The whole family of goonda men work together

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    6. They abuse many. Many could not escape till they are completely used and crushed. They want to make a name for themselves among the powerless ( actually those who dont care about power) and manipulate many lives and make up cruel stories abput others to keep them quiet. Spend a lot of money for power. They do everything in the plan one day they will be like Daniels. They act like that everywhere constantly claim how powerful they are to intimidate people and get things done their way. They will not let any one of their prey. All the brothers work together in this mission secretly for their share of gain. They like to make it impossible to get help. God will prove he is mire powerful than their satanic plots. They dd got caught many many times several places. But shameless.

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  2. Every morning and throughout the day my only prayer Lord save me from these demons. Don't count me with their wickedness and cursed life Lord save me and my lived once from these demons

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  3. A OPEN QUESTION TO ALL MEMBERS OF LEF!
    1) WHY ONLY FEW LEF CENTER CHURCHES IN INDIA ALLOW DOING MARRIAGES.Y NOT IN REST OF YOURS?
    2) DO ONLY SONS & DAUGHTERS OF WELL KNOW FAMILIES WHO STAND ON STAGE EVERY SUNDAY ALLOW FOR MARRIAGES IN LEF?
    3) Y SO? ALL THE AMOUNT SPEND IN RETREATS OR CAMPS WONT BE READ OUT OPENLY!

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    1. LEF (supposed to be christian) is the only organization in the whole world run by only dirty politics . Even the preachers and so called marriages can survive only by politics. If you follow Gods word you are doomed. Howbare you going to get answer for your questions.

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  4. this is all such ridiculous crap..and everyone is accountable before GOD.Mind it before speaking ill of GOD's people.
    when you all claim to know the BIBLE wonderfully then dont you people know about King David who did not touch saul( GOD'S anointed) even though he was troubled by him.
    and you people you are talking against righteous people who are purely living by GOD'S faith.
    BEWARE GOD'S WATCHING EVERYONE.

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    1. Anonymous March 10, 2016 12:41 AM- We thought we got a break from fools like you on this blog for a while. Go and yell your threats somewhere else. It is ignorant people like you that do more damage to the people around than these LEF rogues. Who are you calling God's anointed? Lily Daniel? John Daniel? Lydia Daniel? the dead man Joshua Daniel? Can you give some proof for us to show that they are God's anointed? Did you see some dream or are you hallucinating? We have done this for over an year and for records take note that it is the fraud Daniel family and their stooges who are running for cover and not us who are exposing the evil in this LEF. Don't talk some nonsense about King David and Saul. Read the Bible in its entirety and not in bits and parts and like Daniel rogues please don't start quoting things off context. Half baked knowledge about any subject matter is dangerous and in matters of spirituality it is even more dangerous as you will not destroy yourself but the others around you. You are right about one thing...It is because God is watching and he could not tolerate the evil done in LEF in the name of God, He has used this blog and another one to expose the evil in LEF. Evil that has been carried out and covered up for decades has come out. Yes...GOD IS NOT ONLY WATCHING BUT HE IS ALSO ACTING.

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    2. Anon. 10 March 12.41am

      1. Do you think it is appropriate or helpful to use unpleasant language like 'c---' whilst at the same time speaking God's holy name? I think your use of such language from the outset indicates the depth (or lack) of your Christian faith and understanding.

      2. Yes, everyone is accountable before God, and especially those like the Daniels and their henchmen who have made themselves 'leaders' in The name of Christ.

      3. How do you define 'God's people'? Is someone 'God's person' simply because he says he is?

      4.if you read your Bible, especially the Gospels and New Testament epistles (of which you seem to have little or no knowledge) you will see that time and time again both Jesus and the apostles exposed and condemned many who claimed to be 'God's people', and warned the early church to get rid of them because of the harm they did to the flock of God. Why do you think that it is no longer our duty to do the same? Probably because the Daniels and their henchmen have tried to bully and frighten you with misuse of Bible texts like 'anointed', or perhaps you are one of the Daniels, or one of their henchmen?

      5. By using the example of David and Saul you yourself are saying that Joshua Daniel was not a true believer, as Saul was not, and that just as God's Holy Spirit did not continue with Saul, and his own evil spirit took him over, so the Holy Spirit was not with Joshua Daniel, and Joshua Daniel's own evil spirit took him over (remember that the Bible tells us that hearts of all men are desperately wicked by nature).

      6. What defines a 'righteous person'? The only way of being considered righteous is to be made so by the substitutionary atonement of Christ's death on the cross, and the resultant shedding of his blood. When that happens to a person, the 'righteousness' of Christ' should be apparent through their fruit. Christ's righteousness is not demonstrated by looting and domineering and bullying and hypocrisy, of which we have seen more than enough evidence on LEF.

      7. If these people, the Daniels, whom you claim to be righteous, are 'living by faith', why are they so anxious to carry off the tithes and offerings of poor people (who in real Christian circles would themselves be helped, according to need, not looted to finance the life-style choice of expatriate fellow Indians - the Daniel family). Do these allegedly 'righteous' Daniels not have sufficient faith to trust God to provide for their needs through honest toil (the apostle Paul supported himself by making tents throughout his ministry)?

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    3. Aww. This is how you talk Gods word. Do you ever hear in LEF like this way of learning Gods word now a days. Just talk and act like anointed and hide the truth. Jesus died fo free us from that kind of bondage. Dont force it on people again LEF. That is satans job

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    4. Thanks for equating JD with Saul and WB with David, it is exactly accurate. (Once a Donkey spoke the truth in the Bible). Gods spirit had left Saul and an evil spirit sent by God tormented Saul, here also it happened, JD became Vijay Mallya (a business man who had to flee India once his financial dealings became known) after Gods spirit left him.
      righteous people who are purely living by GOD'S faith.
      I say your statement is clearly a lie. Tell he how Callu baby and his wife (though both claim to be qualified Engineers), live a luxurious life without working a single day. (Without even a centre to support them,, Sorry wrong, Bangalore supports them, ma and bro and sis and her husband (who hopefully doesnt have a few female friends)) Tell me how his brother Marcus Babau and better half visits USA and any SE Asian country at the drop of their hat. Tell me how SD built a huge palatial building, falsely claiming to be a LEF center for her extended family costing more than 1,00,00,000 on no pension. Tell me how much is spent for electrical charges for the palace which is paid by LEF offerings, Tell me how much is spent by maam and her accommodating son in flights. Tell me how much is given to poor evangelists (Rs.0.00). Tell me why the offerings are refused to be counted in the centre by qualified people and accounted and all the expenditure to be by cheques. Tell me why the offerings are bundled in a purse in a car and countered in secrecy in the house. tell me how much money is got as rent for a second floor flat (originally built for Callu Babay, of course when LEF money is used should not LEF receive the rent, or give free to the local evangelist) . Tell me why only callu baby can play the drums, is it made of gold, Just by putting oil on ones head (as done commonly in India) one doesn't become anointed. These people do not live by or on Faith , these are plain Open thieves, robbers and looters. Fool yourself, but not me.

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    5. AnonymousMarch 10, 2016 1:46 PM, have you read the bible?

      None other than Paul makes a vulgar reference to excrement whilst at the same time speaking God's holy name in Philippians 3:8.

      https://bible.org/article/brief-word-study-skuvbalon

      Are we to emulate Paul? For the most part I would say no. But there may be appropriate times to follow his example.

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    6. Anon march 21 2.24pm

      The apostle Paul used fhe word for excrement to emphasise an important point that he was making in relation to the Gospel. The context was appropriate. I do not know if you were the person who used the word c--- in the context of describing posts by me and others, but whoever wrote it was using it out of annoyance, probably because he/she does not like the Daniels and LEF being exposed for what they really are. Paul was saying that he counted all the things he had lost or suffered as being the equivalent to the most basic, poorly regarded material he could name, in comparison with the riches of the knowledge of Christ. The person who wrote c--- in his/her post was simply using a vulgarity to express his/her impatience. There is a huge difference.

      Yes, I do know my Bible, but I try not to used Scripture verses to excuse my misdemeanours (this is a practice that is commonly found in 'Daniel theology').

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    7. AnonymousMarch 21, 2016 6:03 PM,

      I am not the loose cannon who was throwing words around. I have little sympathy for the Daniel clan. The poster did seem a bit unbalanced and I would certainly not entrust anything I hold dear to him or her.

      Nevertheless, for all his or her failings, the poster feels strongly that the earlier statement or statements are rubbish. The poster also presumably draws some guidance from the bible. He or she may have felt a level of disgust and may have carefully weighed that against the level of disgust we assign to Paul and found the term appropriate. Or perhaps it was an impulsive posting. I don't know.

      A blanket condemnation of all strong language would condemn Paul.

      "Do you think it is appropriate or helpful to use unpleasant language like 'c---' whilst at the same time speaking God's holy name? I think your use of such language from the outset indicates the depth (or lack) of your Christian faith and understanding."

      This is a blanket condemnation. Qualifications were provided after the I pointed out New Testament precedent. It is very confusing to issue blanket condemnations then turn around point out that there very valid usages. The next step in the confusion process would be to define clearly what level of disgust would warrant issuing a Pauline statement.

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    8. Anon 22 March 3.01 pm

      The poster who used the word c--- was well aware that he/she was using it (in context) out of pique, and hence probably with the intention of offending, which was surely not the intention of the apostle Paul when he used a word similar in meaning. My post was principally addressed to that poster, whose use of the Bible to justify the presumably serious point that he/she wanted to make (that nothing written on this site is true or displays integrity) was at odds with his/her deliberate and gratuitous use of scatalogical language that was meant to demean both the posters and their contributions.

      Your reference to Paul's use of it was, I suspect, a calculated red herring, and no precedent was created thereby.

      This is not really the time or place in which to indulge one's interest in semantics or logistics, or even, dare I say, one's understanding of the possible nuances of New Testamen Greek nouns. There are far more significant matters which need to be addressed and resolved......

      Therefore, let us simply be content with our shared disdain for the Daniel clan!







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  5. I will answer to mt best of Knowledge and ability
    A OPEN QUESTION TO ALL MEMBERS OF LEF!
    1) WHY ONLY FEW LEF CENTER CHURCHES IN INDIA ALLOW DOING MARRIAGES.Y NOT IN REST OF YOURS?
    Getting a marriage hall needs address, dress, cash and boot liking. But you must have all at the same time.
    2) DO ONLY SONS & DAUGHTERS OF WELL KNOW FAMILIES WHO STAND ON STAGE EVERY SUNDAY ALLOW FOR MARRIAGES IN LEF?
    Yes. The LEF is for and on behalf of one family (Daniel) and all others do not exist (but their money must be given)
    3) Y SO? ALL THE AMOUNT SPEND IN RETREATS OR CAMPS WONT BE READ OUT OPENLY!
    All the amounts received and spent by the Daniel family will be audited in Heaven. Some one said that when JD died along with him, one book for each year of his life was sent to heaven even St.Peter, and St.Thomas (patron saint of India) were highly impressed by JD's great integrity and honesty. Jesus smiled in appreciation and said he had never seen such creative accounting. (believe it or not) (I dont know which courier company was used and what address was such stories even now.
    Simple answer, when you give your money to the Daniel Family along with it you give away all the rights to ask for accounts or question.

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    1. Anon. 10 March 3.51am

      Thank you for conveying the information about the admiration with which the apostles Peter and Thomas, and the Lord Jesus himself, greeted Joshua Daniel 'on his arrival in heaven'. I am assuming that this was offered as humour, since on current evidence we have no reason to suppose that Joshua Daniel ever got as far as the Pearly Gates!

      On the other hand, the kind of mindless, obsequient admiration of this hireling Joshua Daniel that it represents, and that still prevails amongst the ignorant, is no joke.

      Am I not right in thinking that in one of the video Chennai services following his death, a young boy was dressed up as Joshua Daniel (allegedly arriving in heaven!), complete with characteristic hat? And wasn't this 'Joshua Daniel' given prominence at the front in the performance? And didn't another youngster appear later representing Jesus? And wasn't this theatrical 'Jesus' only allowed at the front long enough to express his admiration for the theatrical 'Joshua Daniel', after which 'Jesus' was consigned to a position at the back, leaving 'Joshua Daniel' to continue enjoying the limelight at the front?

      I think that said it all.........

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    2. Dr. Billy Graham in one of his messages said" there are times I question my faith. There are times I struggle. I am weak and dought. But one thing I know Jesus died for me and he is coming back. Every day I pray Jesus when you come back remember me as you promised to the thief on the cross". His words give hope through our struggles Jesus can still carry us through when we solely depend on his grace and not on our works.

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    3. Seeing the video made me think. Do we carry our clothes and hat to heaven as JD was shown. It was very interesting.

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    4. Anon March 10 10.31pm

      More to the point, is Joshua Daniel more important than Jesus? The video certainly made him appear so, and sadly I doubt that JD would have remonstrated with those who produced it if he had been alive to see it. One can just imagine the smug facial expression as he watched it, reflecting the hypocrisy behind the usual protestations that 'I need to be more humble' (saying one 'needs to be more humble' is a way of actually saying 'See how humble I really am, because I am admitting my lack of humbleness; but although I really am humble, obviously I cannot say so myself'). In the same way the constant and dramatic cry from the stage, 'How little I have done for you, Lord!' was a rhetorical question, inviting the response from his audience, 'But beloved 'Brother' Joe, you have done so much for the Lord! The fact that you say you have not proves it'.

      I wonder what the Lord said to JD when JD said the same sort of thing to the Lord, on meeting the Lord face to face? Could it possibly have been, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity!'?

      How can LEF people have been so taken in by this nauseatingly hypocritical man?

      Why are LEF people still worshipping his memory?

      The video would be unwittingly comic if it were not so worrying.

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  6. Annonymous March 10. 2016. 12;41

    If you support evil you have part Isaiah 5:2o Woe to those who call evil good and good evil. Don't you see that on the pulpit them doing evil and condemning the faithful in LEF. John 7:24 judge not by appearance but judge righteous judgement

    Worldly Christians are always more worried about those exposing evil than the evil being exposed
    Nobody is talking about the faithful to God. All these complains are about the wolves in the sheep clothing who are using the faithful , abuse the innocent hiding behind the the faithful but brag about their power.Tell me there is no one on the pulpit who gossips, loots, abuse others . Actually it is not hard to pin point. LEF is now run by such people and faithfuls are crushed. What kind of compassion is that when the mom and child are missing the so called are feasting. Taking others and living on that a luxurious life you call as living in faith. That kind of selfish life and hypocracy is demonic. Dont you see the chaos in LEF families.

    Read james 3:16. 15This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. 16For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing. 17But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy.…

    The bible asks us to judge the corrupt in Gods people stay away from them or you have part in that evil. 1 chorinthians 5:12. 11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

    Why do you want to cover up the oppression while bible says in isaiah 1:17. learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow’s cause.

    If you want to stop people seeking for justice you have part with that evil who are on the pulpit. Nobody is cndemming the oppressed faithful once. Only God can give you the understanding.



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  7. March 10 2016 12:41

    Will you be happy call how Godly they are if your spouse their family have secret ministry and when caught with their corruption put your name on it and threaten to find another spouse and beat up your family all your life and LEF ignores it and puts them on the pulpit allowing them to continue with their threat and corruption. You call this living in faith and Gods children. Where does bible support this kind of Religeon. There are thousands of lives threatened . God delivers frm slavery. In LEF people lived in freedom are slaved , threatened and abused. Unkess you have something to gain even wont call these people Gods people. It is nothing but dirty politics from pulpit

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    1. you need not put up with such rouges, there is a nearest police station and Menatal health Hospitals nearby , please complain,

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    2. Yes its time. Thought one day they will find God. The promise before God , forgiveness everything is mocked. They brag that nobody can stop them. They will do what they want. Final goal is to force their family name on everybody even above God. Believe me they are the worst criminals. Feared for my life for a long time. But God did send people to defend and protect me including grandma Daniel. For these wicked criminals the present LEF is the perfect hiding place to complete their crimes. Not too long. Their sin will find them. Did many times. They are very good make it look like nothing happened. How I wish God save and deliver all their prey.

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  8. Are you confidant these wicked pupit people who condemn others and abuse others ,loot others gossip even involved in illegal activities, abuse the goodness of others , interpret firgiveness as desperate for them , have the same fear tgat you are talking about Gid is watching. Luke 12:3 is for all of us What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs. Can your Godly anointed once discuss about these with everybody that they are guiltless. It s easy to condemn frm the pulpit. But very hard to sit and talk to be accountable. For many pulpit is the perfect hiding place to escape the accountability

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  9. please find out more about mr.priyanath about his ridiculous nature in Krishna district.

    IS there update about him WB ?

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  10. Is church membership biblical? And this sunimen accused LEF that they don't follow it. Where do we see membership in bible ?

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    1. Anonymous 11March 10.16am
      Church membership is implicit in what the Bible says about how the local church is to be ordered, and who should order it. Paul makes it clear that every Christian is important when he talks about the body of Christ, how each believer is essential, and no 'member' of the body is more important than any other. He also made it clear that in some cases 'members' can be disciplined, and even expelled by the fellowship. From this we can see that there was a specific group of people who were accepted as believers and hence played an active part in the running and daily life of the local church; also that it was possible to be excluded from that group, and consequently from attendance at worship services, but most importantly, from having any say in church government and procedure. Paul warns the worshippers against certain practices which might cause visitors to think that the believers were mad. Therefore we know that the unconverted were also to be found present in worship services, just as they are today. Although it is clear that worship services included both believers and unbelievers, nevertheless the responsibility for the running of the church lay only with believers; only they knew the essential guidance of the Holy Spirit of God. Therefore it was necessary to identify, as far as possible, true believers, those who had been born again by the Spirit of God. Whether their names were formally listed, as happens today, and by what precise process they were identified, we cannot know from Scripture alone. It seems reasonable to assume that confession of faith at baptism was one means by which they were admitted into local church membership; another might be by recommendation, if they had moved from the fellowship in which they were originally baptised (and this still happens today in most evangelical churches). However what is clear is that there was a 'membership', the local Body of Christ, which took responsibility for agreeing upon how the church should be run; and that it was not automatically inclusive of every person to be found attending worship meetings.

      Over the centuries the Body of Christ has developed ways of making sure that only born-again believers, those in whom the Holy Spirit is operative, are charged with the running of the church (including the appointment of its officers - elders and deacons). Pastors are essentially teaching elders. Elders are charged with giving spiritual guidance to the local flock, but the local flock must also 'call' an elder into office; in other words, the church members must confirm that they are willing to accept the ministry and guidance of the elders whom they have agreed to appoint (usually by vote at a church members' meeting).

      The denial of the Biblical concept of the 'priesthood of all believers' always characterises cultish groups. You see it in Roman Catholicism. The ordinary Roman Catholic has no say at all in the running of his church or the appointment of church leaders. Sadly you also see it in LEF: the overall 'leadership' is exclusive to the Daniel dynasty, whether or not congregations consider them to be appropriate. They, in turn, decide who are the 'subleaders' (known as 'evangelists'). The ordinary LEF attender has no say in the running and discipline of his/her local group; no idea what happens to the tithes and offerings; no part in deciding what missionary or other venture these should be spent on; no way of getting rid of bad 'leaders', or deciding, in conjunction with local leaders, how much of the income should be given to them for their expenses. If you are an LEF attender, born again, and you don't care that you have been deprived of your Biblical church responsibilities and privileges, then you are either ignorant of the bible, or lazy, or brainwashed, or a combination of all of these things.

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  11. From SUJAY PART-1

    Hey Bro,
    It's really interesting and happy to see someone who thinks like me and had same experience as I had with LEF.
    I should confess that I'm little crazy guy.I play pranks on people quite often.If you're reading this and if you are an LEF guy,LOL! you would think that I'm sinning since I play pranks on people.For you people, everything is a sin . Anyway,last night , I called an LEF prayer center and asked him a question. The Question is "Am I being influenced by the sins of my ancestors ? Should I confess their sins to God ? ". He said," You should confess their sins as their sins will influence your family for three generations".. Skipping the rest of the conversation , I would say that this guy doesn't know anything about the Law and the Doctrine of Sacrifice. Why would I confess someone's sin ? Bible Claims that if you're a born again Christian, you have been crucified with Christ and Christ already fulfilled the law but you're no longer accountable to the Law but to Christ as He bought you with price. LEF guys should read Bible very clearly. Your church is preaching a stupid theology.


    I have a girlfriend .She is an american and white. When I told her about LEF, she was surprised. Just because everything with LEF is too legal. There are two types of dangerous extremities of Christianity. One is Legalistic and another is Liberal. Legalistic is what LEF follows. Jesus told us that the yoke is lite not a burden.But when you add all the man-made rules to the word and claim that it's scripture, you turned Cult.You can't enjoy the grace of God when you burden yourself with LEF.

    You say that Drinking is a sin , falling in love with a girl is a sin, smoking is a sin, watching movies is a sin..and what else is not a sin for you anyway..? If you think that Drinking is a sin , you should read John 2:1-11 and remember that Jesus had wine on the passover which nothing but alcohol. Too much of anything is sin . But you would never notice that.

    Do you really that there is spirit in Beulah gardens? Do you mean that God's spirit moves in beulah Gradens. If you believe you so, I would say ,"Wait a minute".. and think once what Jesus said. Holy spirit lives in Christian. That's the promise for a believer. You don't need to go to Beulah gardens to enjoy the presence of the Holy Spirit.Read John 16 for your reference. Holy spirit doesn't live in a place.But it resides in your heart(if you're a christian).. LEF Guys told me to attend revival meetings when I was an immature christian.they told me that Beulah Garden has God's spirit moving in. Haha..Guys, The LEF people should be slapped for the false doctrine.I have been to too many places and tried too many dishes. I would say that the worst food that I had in my life is at Beulah Gardens.

    Joshua Daniel wrote a book called "Another Daniel". When I heard the title of the Book, I thought that the book was written by Somebody who is a disciple of Mr.DANIEL. Haha..Not a Disciple of Christ. Who would Dare to write a book about himself and name himself as another DANIEL ? Daniel was a great prophet . Mr.Joshua Daniel compares himself to the Daniel of Bible? I know that in God's eyes, everyone is the same . But Mr.Joshua Daniel did so because he feels that he is a prophet .To me , he is a worthless false Prophet. A foolish Thug.

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  12. FROM SUJAY PART -2
    When I visited Beulah gardens, I saw him for the last time and for the first time in my life.He speaks often about sin and condemnation .Bible doesn't tell that people beatup themselves badly for their sins. This guy after completing one hour of speaking, he was surrounded by the leaders of LEF. He was guarded as if he was a politician. Do you think that Jesus wanted his disciples to guard him while he walks ? He didn't speak to anybody and he didn't smile too. What the heck is wrong with him. Jesus humbled himself and washed the feet of his disciples. That's absolute humbleness. I haven't seen that Humbleness in Joshua Daniel. He don't have the heart of a servant. To be Honest, I wanna slap him .But Fortunately, He died and that's just awesome.

    If you are from LEF and I'm sure you would think that I'm going against God.God would judge me for speaking against Joshua Daniel. Open up your Bibles and read it everyday.Meditate it and you would understand what is true Doctrine.. The only thing you will learn from LEF is condemning yourself everyday. Jesus Didn't tell you that.
    If you have any questions, you can email me at sujayraj.812@gmail.com .If you want to bring an argument, please bring proper references from Bible for supporting your argument.. Take care and thank you to the blogger

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  13. Read about LEF in a book about revival by a german Kurt E Koch. Was initially impressed and was looking for something alive but non-charismatic and contacted JD by post. He replied and I kept in touch and began attending retreats in the U.s and Canada. Did May retreat in 89 and was in and out in ten days and left excited. Continued connection with LEF and married w/in LEF. Starting getting a little weary and wary of JD's preaching, the lack of joy in retreats, and the funding of a man who warned others about "the North American continent" while his own family alll lived there. My wife, newborn and I attended 94 May retreat...(to be continued).

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    1. Don't make baseless statement . When you don't see his humbleness how can you seek the good things from LEF? Are you certainly sure that the theologian did write about your revival meetings? Before asking these questions, just tell me if there is the Holy Spirit moving in Beulah Gardens ? If so, explain me how that align with the scripture

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    2. AnonymousMarch 11, 2016 10:54 AM continued....
      ...and stayed for 4 months total in Madras at HQ and in Coonoor. In terms of the Daniel family and my observations concerning it was a negative experience (I'm making this very brief).Bible School was run as an afterthought. Now, of course, I can see that it is a source of cheap labour.
      The Daniels lived much differently than the Indians there as well as in the U.S.Before I was done with my second trip I realized that JD did not like his own people based on observing his actions and attitudes in the U.S and in India. Back in the U.S. (we kept most of our turmoil to ourselves)there arose issues in Canada that came to a head in a U.S. retreat involving JD personally, calling him to account for certain things. In his arrogance he handled it badly and a well-regarded couple left simultanously the retreat (early) and the LEF. Interestingly, I got a call after the retreat ended from JD who attempted to obfuscate the circumstances of the aformentioned couple's departure and lied telling me that the husband, who was treasurer of LEF Canada, was unstable and "was given a little something to do." In other words JD was trying to discredit him. A day or two later JDD called me to discredit the LEF Canada leader calling him a brown-noser (chamcha), lazy, etc.I contacted a few friends in Canada after these phone calls and got the reat story-the truth. I told my wife that we will leave the LEf depending on how the Canadians are treated. End result the LEF Canada disassociated with LEFI and my family as well. LD called and talked to my wife and she told LD her we were leaving and LD asked if I wanted to JD. The answer was no.

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    3. JD+ Joshua Daniel JDD= John Daniel ...End result the LEF Canada disassociated with LEFI and so did we. LD called and talked to my wife and she told LD we were leaving and LD asked if I wanted to talk to JD. The answer was no.

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    4. True the Daniels think too much of themselves. Though themselves are Indians they look down on Indians . That itself is low behavior. That shows what low human they are.They live on genuine love , sacrifice and Godly fear of precious people on Gods sight. They are making themselves so low that they are the once who makes Indians low.

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    5. Re Kurt Koch: I believe his Christian witness was eventually somewhat discredited by what happened in his private life. That does not mean that everything he wrote was untrue, but that one should treat his writings with caution.

      The situation with John Branch is somewhat different. Whereas Koch's interest was to a degree objective, being in 'revival' and in the supernatural, Branch confined his 'preaching' to the sinfulness of his hearers, a subjective topic. He thus obediently following the 'tunnel vision' preoccupation of JD, and consequently LEFI. JD had little or no knowledge of biblical theology, Christian doctrine, pastoral practice, or church history. He never sought or received sound instruction, and was therefore unable to 'preach' in accordance with true evangelical expectation. As JD's dupe, Branch devoted his 'preaching' exclusively to the topic of morality, about which he clearly knew little, and himself practised even less! Koch's conclusions re incidences of revival internationally, and the manifestations of the supernatural in association with Christian communities, might yet have some merit. Branch's utterences must always be regarded as dubious because he is an adulterer, and therefore did not himself believe or practise the only teachings he was simultaneously preaching (well, bellowing!) to others. That he remains unrepentant and has now divorced his wife and married the woman with whom he committed long-term adultery is evidence of this.

      The antics of John Branch seem conveniently to have faded from LEFI consciousness. How did the Daniels explain his sudden absence from May retreats and youth camps? Did John and Lily persist in telling the lie they planned (that Branch was unable to get a visa), even though that lie had been exposed well in advance? Surely this man's ten year long appearances on retreat platforms - from which he repeatedly scolded both young and old about their alleged immorality, acts of immorality which in reality (not just allegedly) he was at the same time committing - should have been removed from LEFI archives by now? Or is the resultant depletion of the LEF propaganda these archives offer more important than truth and godliness?

      The 'John Branch' scandal reflects the innate, evil hypocrisy and arrogant deceit of the Daniel regime even more than it does the wicked behaviour of the man himself. The devil is the father of lies (and of liars!).

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    6. Kurt Koch is simply a rung on the ladder in terms of my path to the fellowship. This book I mentioned was written before his "disobedience." He unwittingly gave credit where credit was not due.

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    7. Kurt Koch is simply a rung on the ladder in terms of my path to the fellowship. This was before his private life became an issue. He unwittingly gave credit to where credit was not due when he praised JD and the LEF. Terry Huffman

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    8. Terry: I suppose in a way that confirms what I wrote - if Koch did not recognise the problems with JD and the LEF before he validated them in print, then in a way one is not surprised that his private life later took the questionable turn it did. I wonder how much he actually researched JD etc. beforehand? Maybe he was somewhat blinded because JD shared his interests in a primitive sort of way, in so far as JD was fixated on what he thought was 'revival', and also somewhat obsessed with what he considered to be his own 'demon-chasing' abilities.

      I always think it is somewhat dangerous to 'major' on the more dramatic aspects of Christian experience (genuine or otherwise), or even to make a huge issue about any one contributory factor, even prayer. There is a healthy balance......to have a 'name' for any particular thing can be unhelpful to the individual, however godly (which JD most certainly was not!).

      Was the Koch book the one on Indonesia, Terry?

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    9. The book was either "Revival in Indonesia" or Wine of God." JD claim to have been a guest in his home and took it as a feather in his cap to be associated with Koch. Koch wasn't investigating "groups" per se, but writing about revivals in various places. He also mentioned Bakht Singh as well in his book(s). Bakht Singh considered LEF "not quite sound in the gospel" Bakht Singh recommended some of his Chicago Assy go to the meetings of a cultic group called "The Assembly." as well as speaking to some of their meetings.See George Geftakys and the Assembly.m My point-don't make gurus out of preachers. George Geftakys was a wol in sheep's clothing. Terry Huffman

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    10. Interesting! Have just now read an account of Geftakys and his group. Many characteristics shared with JD. Bakht Singh also seems odd from what you say. I have noticed that LEF people, even if they acknowledge its flaws, still seem to gravitate towards other cultish groups. One I know was fulsome in his praise of David Yonggi Cho, despite all the negative analyses of Cho, his occult thinking, and his recent conviction for financial misdeeds. The LEF person insisted that Cho is 'a man of God'. The same LEF person then gravitated towards Bahkt Singh. Others seem to admire the utterences of such well-known false preachers as Joyce Meyer, Reinhardt Bonnke et al. The blinkered, largely untaught nature of LEF seems to make its adherents very spiritually vulnerable - out of the frying pan, into the fire. So sad......

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    11. I don't mean to bash Bakht Singh but this is just a fact.Wine of God is where LEF-HQ address was given altho it was mostly about N. Daniel:http://www.reavivamentos.com/recent_revivals/new_wine.php LEF was also mentioned in Koch's Jesus auf allen Kontinenten. This kind of stuff will forever be controversial, no doubt.

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    12. I don't know what happened concerning the miracles etc., but it seems to me any special demonstrations of power outside of structure and personal accountability (to others) leads to trouble. koch's writing is the only way to hear someone elses impressions-that I know of- besides those of JD. Too bad Koch wasn't really an eyewitness.

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  15. It's me who posted aboout the abuse by the LEF criminals. Agree LEF doctrines are wiered while promoting criminals. According to 1 Timothy 6:3. It fits them perfect. 3If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, 4he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicion

    But it is important to keep our side right in our approach just fight for justice not attitude and stoop down to their level. Sometimes ok to suffer for right reason considering some innocent victims. Just expose the evil and God will do the justice. 1 Peter. 3:16. …15but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; 16and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame. 17For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.…

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    1. Sorry Bro.. I don't understand what you're trying to say

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    2. Sujay Ray: perhaps Anon 11.28 is going down the LEF 'line of least resistance' a little bit? However if he means that we should never call an evil person 'evil' to his face, then where does that leave Jesus and the apostles? They were very plain-speaking when it came to evil people polluting Christian truth, especially those claiming to be religious leaders.

      I don't see much 'gentleness and reverence' in Jesus calling the Pharisees 'tombs full of rotting flesh', and what about most of the letter of Jude ?

      I think Anon. has taken Peter's words out of context? Surely Peter is writing about how one sometimes has to put up with being personally reviled for no good reason, not about the open and necessary exposing of and dealing with false prophets/Christian leaders?

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  17. Read properly I said they promote criminals. But we don't wan't to talk the same way proud like them. I agree with you. Even paul went through humiliation through fellow christians and pagans . He condemned and exposed them. But did not brag but said in Romans. 8:18 the sufferings are bleesings. The only comfort for people like me who are trapped is to hope thevsamevway as paul did. There is no place in the world that you can be trapped the way LEF criminals trap you. Wish i have the same blessing to escape these criminal family.

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    1. Anon 11 March 12.29 pm

      In what way are you trapped by LEF? Are you one of those LEF wives who is bullied by her LEF husband and in-laws?

      Where there's a will there's a way! Or put more biblically, if Christ is for you, who can be against you? Take heart and refuse to go to LEF meetings. If they threaten you, seek help from the police, or from a real pastor from a sound, evangelical church.

      Surely active battling against the evil of LEF has got to be better than passively suffering under its dominance? Easy for me to say, I know.......

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    2. Wish God shows the way out. Yes trapped in wicked LEF family. Goondas, greedy, wicked. People. Gossip and abuse others for power every moment . A big team as family. A deep pit.

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  18. When these power greedy monsters are on the phone its like devils conference from hell. Mocking , plotting, laughing at others pain, manupulating to grab the spot using loop holes. Unbelievable. Certainly end time church headquarters.

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  19. LEF, JD LD, JJD conveniently lie and hide things. JD always acted that he was above caste, community, money, etc, while doing the exact opposite, Now his son is hiding the fact that he is not the chairman of LEF, His mum and 80+ young mum is the chairman, then why is he enjoying the perks and goodies as chairman.

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  20. on tour to Bangalore I unfortunately had to listen to 2 so called messages form Callu Babay, Oh my, that young fellow is a spoiled brat, and just blabbers on and on and on, He is arrogant and full of himself. His basic theology (If there) is this, God has blessed me and given me all based on my faith, if you are not having it it because you have no faith. While the exact truth is that the family helps it self liberally to the offerings, while denying to others. People just staggered out that fellow just droned on, I saw, after service he coolly collected all offerings and carried home, proving that the LEF is a family business where if the mum is away son will so the needful. Is there no other way to handle offerings. Will all evangelists be allowed to touch the offerings.

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  21. Now sadly in the LEF there is no sound bible based preaching / living / doctrinal messages, Money collection is the only aim. No one bothers about what is being preached, Any nonsense is Ok. The idea is this, God speaks through me, If you can not understand it is your problem. So the preachers refuse to prepare and get on the stage and just blabber, I pray God may send some quality preachers.

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    1. Anon March 14 2.52 am

      Why would God send 'quality preachers' of the Gospel to join forces with a false para-church, a 'synagogue of Satan'?

      Jesus tells us not to try to patch up old wine-skins, but to find a new skin for new wine.

      Find a new, sound church.

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  22. WASHINGTONS. It's Demonic to gossip and betray people for success. Don't make others life hell for your greed. Follow Gods people who have done mighty work for God by sacrifice , honesty and being humble. Nothing is worth gaining by manipulating lives and twisting Gods word.

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    1. Why bother with these Washington people? Let them stay in LEF just as they are, joining all the other manipulators. They will continue to bite and destroy each other until LEF self-destructs, as it must, sooner or later.

      Meanwhile, you get out of LEF and find a church based on sound doctrine and real Christian love and fellowship.

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    2. What if they trap you for their greed. There are many trapped in their evil plots. They make you loose everything even if you leave them they wont leave you to use you for their manipulation. Many lost a lot for life time to their greed for power and money.

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  23. Some of these criminals who belong in jail life time because of LEF act as if everything is allright. Should send their stories to CNN or other international news to save lives. These criminals should be dealt in the court for making the poor people confess and use their confession to black mail to work and spy for them like slaves. Get into families like friends and completely change their lives.till they crush them for them to rule. Wolves in sheep clothing. Even God doesnt control people. He gives freedom. These thieves only steal others freedom to make a religeon for themselves to rule.

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    1. Anon 14 March 8.56pm

      I hope that you yourself have left LEF.

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  24. Dont understand how after listening for decades about Pharaoh, Goliath, Jezebel even Hitler and knowing their end these culprits keep doing what they are doing though got caught many times. God has an end for your wickedness too, doesnt matter how long you hide behind power.

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    1. Anon march 15 1.06pm

      Have you cut your connections with LEF?

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  25. Nobody will believe how far these poer monsters go to use their power. They use LEF for night shift ministry among ladies. True weather you believe it or not. This is what LEF gone low. Even their own children are witnesses

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  26. Can you pleas elaborate on this? We have some solid connections in Chennai which we can use if anything illegal especially in terms of physically and sexually abusing women is done by these LEF rogues. Please give more details.

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  27. What do you mean night shift ministry by ladies?

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  28. Anong ladies. .Yes this man who is prominant in LEF everyweekend ministered among lades in a house for years . Also claims LEF backed him up. Stopped because other Godly people whom he was using for power interfered. But what an example for his children. Uses his power to ruin many lives. LD knows it is true. His siblings get power because of his bribe.

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    1. Anon March 15 7.4m

      I hope that you no longer associate with LEF.

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  29. This man and his family is the solid example what LEF is behind the pulpit. It is worst than LC and the Mom and child story. They have their own bible and religeon worst than you ever saw in LEF so far.. Believe me this is not an exageration. More than people didnt see it i clearly see that no one dare to get on their bad side including JD and LD. That big mouth they have

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    1. who's that guy, his name please so that we warn the ladies about him.

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  30. Can you please provide a complete details about the LEF Ministry in Bangalore. I keep hearing different thoughts from different people. Do you suggest me to go to LEF Bangalore. How sis.Shanthi Daniel and Bro. Caleb Daniel.

    Can you please help me to understand... I am confused about these people. I need to take a decision which church should I go.

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    1. Dear Enquirer (anon. 16 March @ 1.30am)

      Please visit Grace Reformed Baptist Church, where you should find a sound ministry and biblical church government, and where you will not be abused spiritually or financially. Here are the details:

      Grace Reformed Baptist Church
      Second Cross
      Oil Mill Road Park
      Lingapuram
      Bangalore 560084

      Pastor: A. Murali
      Mob no: +91 974 324 6003
      email. : murali.amerisan@gmail.com

      Deacon: Arul Dass
      Mob: +91 984 406 7777

      Services (Tamil):

      Sundays 9am and 5pm

      If you are not a Tamil speaker I am sure that Pastor Murali will be able to direct you to another suitable fellowship.



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