Here is a very well thought out write-up of one of our followers on the blog who is suggesting some action plans
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There are many issues to discuss concerning the LEF,
including teachings, outreach, ministry, leadership and organizational
structure. Of course I won't try to do all of that in a single comment. Let me
suggest that the blog and the commentators would be most convincing if each
person would write clearly and either stick to the facts or pose good
questions. While I understand that many people have been deeply hurt by the
LEF, let's keep the discussion at a higher level.
Since much of this blog/discussion concerns financial issues, let me make a few comments about that. ANY organization registered with the government (the LEF surely is) must officially follow certain rules. JD would always claim that his focus was on the Kingdom of God and he did not want to focus on organizational issues and take attention away from spiritual growth. He is posing a false dichotomy, that is, that one cannot be both organized and spiritual. Of course you can! I would suggest that until the LEF has clear, transparent organization, one should not give them any money. Again, ANY reputable organization does this. The collection from each center should be clearly documented, the expenses, etc. The LEF officially has a board, but they never properly met (JD would hold prayer meetings and these would be the official "board meetings")
The board should hold regular, PROPER meetings and make organizational issues collectively. Of course the Daniels are afraid of this, for various reasons, but since they are an official charitable organization, they should grow up and act like one.
Once I sat with JD in his HQ office and he called a brother in to bring him a large sum of money. The brother seemed surprised, and JD got mad and told just to get the money. There was no explanation given. When the LEF gets its house in order, THEN you start giving again. If you are concerned for a local evangelist, perhaps bring him food, clothing, etc which will not be illegally transferred to others.
I'm not suggesting that every LEF person needs to understand the finances. In a normal organization, a well-functioning group of leaders collectively make decisions and everything is transparent. A level of trust is exercised. In the LEF, however, there is no transparency and abuses occur on a large scale. Do not be afraid. You have every right to have a proper organization. It's actually not hard to have proper accountability. JD told the Canadians that he was accountable to no one but God. For his soul this may be true, but not as an organizational leader. Don't let the Daniels hide behind their "power". If they are clean, they have nothing to fear.
Since much of this blog/discussion concerns financial issues, let me make a few comments about that. ANY organization registered with the government (the LEF surely is) must officially follow certain rules. JD would always claim that his focus was on the Kingdom of God and he did not want to focus on organizational issues and take attention away from spiritual growth. He is posing a false dichotomy, that is, that one cannot be both organized and spiritual. Of course you can! I would suggest that until the LEF has clear, transparent organization, one should not give them any money. Again, ANY reputable organization does this. The collection from each center should be clearly documented, the expenses, etc. The LEF officially has a board, but they never properly met (JD would hold prayer meetings and these would be the official "board meetings")
The board should hold regular, PROPER meetings and make organizational issues collectively. Of course the Daniels are afraid of this, for various reasons, but since they are an official charitable organization, they should grow up and act like one.
Once I sat with JD in his HQ office and he called a brother in to bring him a large sum of money. The brother seemed surprised, and JD got mad and told just to get the money. There was no explanation given. When the LEF gets its house in order, THEN you start giving again. If you are concerned for a local evangelist, perhaps bring him food, clothing, etc which will not be illegally transferred to others.
I'm not suggesting that every LEF person needs to understand the finances. In a normal organization, a well-functioning group of leaders collectively make decisions and everything is transparent. A level of trust is exercised. In the LEF, however, there is no transparency and abuses occur on a large scale. Do not be afraid. You have every right to have a proper organization. It's actually not hard to have proper accountability. JD told the Canadians that he was accountable to no one but God. For his soul this may be true, but not as an organizational leader. Don't let the Daniels hide behind their "power". If they are clean, they have nothing to fear.
To North American: thank you for your clear setting out of principles in connection with the running of an organisation where money is a factor; also for your plea to posters to be a little more focused in what they post - as a non-Indian who has absolutely no time for LEF or the Daniel family, I am nevertheless getting more confused by the day! However I do not think that the abused LEF attenders (and that means anyone who is not actually taking part in inflicting the abuse, whether they see themselves as victims or not!) should be seeking to rectify matters within LEF. There is no doubt that most members of the Daniel family, including extended family members, are scoundrels; there are also many equally corrupt 'henchmen' whose names have been made public here. There are also genuine believers who are nevertheless blinded to reality by misplaced loyalty to an organisation which has always had a shaky basis, in Christian terms, with its dubious theology, and, within that framework, an apparent complete lack of the understanding and teaching of essential ecclesiology.
ReplyDeleteWith all of the above in mind, what is left on which to build any kind of genuine Christian church? Nothing. Requiring LEF to introduce and adhere to normal organisational procedures, or, indeed, Biblical principles , is to try to turn the proverbial sow's ear into a silk purse, or to build upon sand. It cannot be done. One has to have the correct material from which to construct the desired article. Rather let us encourage LEF adherents who genuinely want the abuses to stop to meet and pray together as a new, embryonic church whose elected leadership can then begin to implement Biblical church government, and care for their flock with the compassion and honesty that the Lord Jesus spoke of and Himself exercised.
The arrogance with which Joshua Daniel dismissed and scorned the law and Biblical church government is breathtakingly incredible. Even more incredible is the fact that nobody firmly enough took him to task about this and insisted that he be obedient in these matters, although I know that some godly older saints tried, and even asked me to help them. Most incredible of all is that people still try to defend Joshua Daniel and his corrupt regime.
To 01 may 2015, at 10:26, Anonymous: You have made several valid points.
DeleteBut let respectfully disagree on a couple of points:
1) Those who have been abused should challenge the LEF, at least collectively. The leaders prefer that those with a complaint follow one of two paths: be quiet, repent and submit, or leave. In either case, the abuse usually stays hidden. This needs to come out into the light, assuming that the organization can be salvaged. This leads to
2) I believe the LEF *can* be salvaged. Yes, some of teaching is just plain wrong, there are some destructive leaders, it's badly organized, etc. However, many people join the LEF for similar reasons: they want to fellowship with a group of like-minded people seeking a walk with God. Since I left the LEF many years ago, I can't speak to how common this is now, but it was certainly true back then. One reason why the abuse of power has lasted is because these sincere seekers and followers may be naive and simply trust the leaders. They are focused on their spiritual lives and their humility, coupled with fear of disobedience, restrain their complaints. If the follower goes to one of these leaders to complain (or share their "negative thinking"), they are told to repent. The leaders are taking advantage of submission when legitimate concerns are raised. I saw this many times. A parallel strategy is that people are not supposed to talk with each other about their concerns with others; they know that if the speak, they will be ratted out and then receive rebukes, etc. Of course this atmosphere isolates people and they often imagine that *they* are the problem. These false leaders are truly wolves in sheep's clothing. But many of the congregants want to learn, fellowship together and grow. Moreover, what would happen if the whole LEF collapsed? The properties would be sold, and guess who the owner is? I know that several of them were formally owned by JD. I can't speak to this in India, but it may be worth finding out. In Canada, the center was owned by "LEF Southwestern Ontario", so JD could not steal it when the work broke down. A majority of the board (three out of five) decided to exercise their legal responsibilities and *they* decided how the work would go forward. I would hope the same could be done in other parts of the LEF.
To North American: interesting, but I still cannot understand why anyone would want to continue under the auspices of a discredited cultish organisation with a totally discredited leadership. Surely even the name 'LEF' itself would carry negative connotations to anyone interested, and if it does not, then such people should not remain in ignorance? I take your point about the resources, both in cash and in property. There is property in London which is worth over £1,000,000, of which the legal ownership has not yet been established. I suspect that the Daniels have made quite sure that they have an overwhelming legal interest in all of the Indian property, although exactly how they have done this is still not quite clear, e.g. Lydia Daniel's name appears on some documents, and John and Lily on others. I would love the Indians to challenge these Daniel people collectively, but suspect that most of them either do not have the resources, or they are too embroiled in profiting from the outcomes of the Daniel misdeeds to want to try. If there are any others on any LEF boards, they are probably outnumbered by puppet Daniels and henchmen.
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely right about the Daniel strategies which were employed to stop people's entirely reasonable objections to, and enquirers into, their dubious activities. I too witnessed them, although ignored them!
I think many would like to see the Daniels publicly made to repent and restore what they have taken, or at least to hand over everything to honest, responsible, mature Christians who would use it for the benefit of suffering LEF adherents. However I suspect that in a country like India it is a lot harder to bring this about than it might be in N. America.
I agree that it would be good to salvage the local corporate worship of the people in LEF, but I just cannot see the sense or logic in trying to preserve the name 'Laymen's Evangelical Fellowship' in any shape or form, beyond what would need to be retained whilst attempting to recoup some of the losses. What right-minded Christian would want to be associated with that name now, after all that is coming to light?
I can understand the idea of running away from the LEF as quickly as possible. I don't care about the name, change it if that seems the best. In both Germany and Canada, many of the close relationships were maintained even after these groups officially left the LEF. None of the groups outside of India are large. Indeed, the US has *never* had a sizable group (despite all of the LEF money which has flowed there). Although the Daniels were in South Bend, Indiana for many years (and Betty lives there still), there is nothing to show of this "work". Most are now in Detroit, and it is still tiny. I have a hard time imagining, however, how a lot of people in an Indian centre would be disbanded immediately. Despite the LEF's shortcomings, the congregations were encouraged to follow and obey God and there are many vital spiritual relationships. Perhaps some people would grow better in other churches, but maybe not. Let them have proper leaders, this may be the best.
ReplyDeleteDear North American, you raised a very valid point in your last comment. You said-
ReplyDelete"Indeed, the US has *never* had a sizable group (despite all of the LEF money which has flowed there)." If all of the money flowed into US and we have no tangible proof of LEF doing any substantial work, then most logical question to ask is - what happened to all that money. We don't think people gave checks to any one of the Daniel members. At least, we don't expect people from Germany and Canada (which had sizable congregation consisting of contributors to LEF) to have sent checks JD and family as monthly gifts. The money should have come in as a donation to LEF which is registered as a 501 (C) (3) and all the money would have been tax-exempt. If indeed the money was sent to the non-profit, then JD and clan did not have to pay a single penny as taxes. So, this is a crime of two counts:
1. Misusing the money that was sent to charity for personal gains
2. Hiding under the cover of non-profit and evading taxes that are due to the government of US. If the checks were made to JD and clan, then they will be forced to show this money as income for which they have to pay taxes. So, this family may have registered LEF as a non-profit in the US just to allow money to flow in for their personal use without having to pay any taxes.
It may be a good idea to ask IRS to look into LEF's operations in US. IRS doesn't take the frauds of non-profits too lightly and they cannot be bribed as their other counter parts in other countries. Thank you again, for drawing the readers' attention to this. We would appreciate If you can pass on any proof or documentation that can strengthen our case against LEF's fraud in the US that we would like to report to IRS.
II brought 3 people to Valpo meeting, one left after he got married to a woman they did not approve of, the other left after he went to college, I left after I was offended by their hypocrisy, after Betty ran away, what was there to sell, JD house was not in order, according to the Bible he was not fit to be elder, Joseph and James always had problems as well, I think Joseph noticed something was wrong, James I don't know. It was easy to tell something was wrong, it will never grow in USA, only h1b visa people will go , it got much worse over time. John drove a benz, it was very offensive, they tried but no sane person would support their ministry after U got to know them. Yes they used LEF funds to send their kids to most expensive schools while driving benz, what can U do about it now, nothing. they tried to build a following but they became so evil over time.
DeleteThe money went to Notre Dame and Valparaiso University, and too their nice 350K house in south bend, they did try to build a following though but they mistreated me so bad I left, others notice it was unstable, At times JD spoke so wonderfully it was confusing, he could preach like a angel then act like the devil afterwords. He tried to force us to sign a document saying Joseph would return to India, we refused, we knew Joseph wanted money and would never leave USA. Joseph was honest but mainly he was driven by money. John was always driven by ecclesiastical clout (using religion to dominate from the love of self like the catholic church.)
DeleteWell all the money that flowed into US (from India via UK) is used to pay for the lovely single-family house for JD/LD in an affluent neighborhood in Michigan, personal Church for pigeon head family (JD Jr and fly) fancy cars, music recordings for the D5, and of course for the frequent cross Atlantic business/first class tickets for the Daniel clan. The house, cars and the church is of course registered in the name of the “non profit organization” so they are tax exempt. Also then they can boldly preach “I do not own any houses in my name”….. will they extend the same courtesy/facilities to the other evangelists and works too? Some of them live and work under such deplorable and unhygienic conditions.
ReplyDeletehttp://501c3lookup.org/LAYMANS_EVANGELICAL_FELLOWSHIP_INTERNATIONAL_INC/
Deletehttp://www.bizapedia.com/in/THE-LAYMANS-EVANGELICAL-FELLOWSHIP-INTERNATIONAL-INC.html
http://www.bizapedia.com/mi/LAYMANS-EVANGELICAL-FELLOWSHIP-ASSOCIATION-INTERNATIONAL-INC.html
Quite enlightening...Was the college fee that was paid to send JD's 5 children to college (please note that all those colleges that JD's children went to were private colleges that do not give out a whole lot of scholarship money) and also the college fee that JJD is paying to send two or more of the D5s to go to college booked as an expense to LEF?
ReplyDeleteNorth American: I don't see the demise of the Indian LEF as a sudden and dramatic disbanding, but rather as people simply ceasing to attend its services or to give it money (as you suggested, although you said 'until.....', whereas I feel that a completely fresh start would be healthier. I cannot see the logic or point of trying only to address the leadership, and how many would be willing to try to insist on this amongst either the simpler people who are being duped, or the more 'educated' people who may well have personal axes to grind in keeping the status quo going?). Your idea of groups supporting local evangelists directly was helpful - assuming that they are honest men and not amongst the 'goondas or chamchas'. There are many fellowships which do genuinely encourage godliness and Biblical Christianity, which I am not at all sure that Joshua Daniel ever did, despite all the 'preaching and posturing'. There is no need for healthy spiritual relationships to be lost, and I love the idea of ex-LEF attenders meeting independently, with the men sharing their thoughts and knowledge in submission only to the Word, and everybody growing in grace, unburdened by the false teachings and spiritual and physical burdens imposed by LEF. Indians in particular have been under its grievous yoke for many decades, and have not experienced the freedom that Christ came to give us. A few Europeans are also under its yoke, but more by choice, as nothing stops them from 'shaking the LEF dust off their feet' except their own wills. It seems that Indians in India are at risk of real physical danger, as well as psychological brutalisation from LEF leaders. I suspect that LEF has never really taken off outside of India because its precepts are not really convincing or tenable, and other nations are less 'guru-obsessed'. There will always be people in every nation, however, who seem to need to be micro-managed, spiritually, which paves the way for the Joshua Daniels of this world (literally, 'worldly'!) to step in. Whistleblower may also have a point about the other centres largely serving as channels for money to be got to the Daniels from India (or anywhere!). There are still questions unanswered about the income and expenditure of the London centre.
ReplyDeleteThe most important step now is that NOBODY GIVES ANY MORE MONEY OR PROPERTY TO THE LEF IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM, OR AT ANY TIME. Ideally, also, that nobody supports its services any more.
Dear North American, we are not sure what part of LEF structure is tenable for it to be protected in its present form. Who comes up with an idea of building an organization without giving formal memberships? Who comes up with an idea of not formally appointing men and women as pastors and care-takers but bestow them with a power to rule over people? Who comes with an idea that pastors will not be paid and all the money should be sent to a central location? Who comes up with an idea of not acknowledging any money received with receipts? Who comes up with an idea that the "Board membership" will be a guarded secret? Somebody who doesn't want to be held accountable but enjoy the benefit.
DeleteWe all work or most of us work in corporations. How many of us will even consider joining a company that is run as loosely as LEF?
The corporations we work for are all regulated by various laws. If manager discriminates against women,race etc, he will go to jail. If CEOs of Walmart and Target engage in price fixing, the only thing standing between them and jail is a few months of trial. There are numerous other business practice regulations. Even the so called secular companies maintain a certain level transparency so as to not attract government's scrutiny. The emboldened corruption in LEF by this rogue family and its stooges while handling public money is not something that just needs to be straightened out. This corrupt system needs to be completely dismantled and it cannot happen with any one of the present board members wielding their power to rob people in the broad day light. So, it is a tall order to bring any meaningful changes to operations of LEF without completely dismantling the present board. We the whistle blowers are at it and we are confident that all of this will see the light of the day very soon.
Regarding money sent to the Daniels, one would need to contact the former leaders in western countries to get official documents. When the Canadians broke up, it came out that JD received a monthly "radio speaker honorarium" (I don't remember the monthly amount). It also became clear that since JD was on the Canadian board, it was illegal for him to receive these. At the retreats held in North America, I suspect (not 100% sure) that JD was given the collections (the LEF is the only Christian group I know of which takes collections at retreats after people have already registered and paid). At some of the retreats you had visitors (often Indians) whose only LEF contact in the US was the retreats. They would sometimes deposit huge amounts into the collection.
ReplyDeleteJD referred to the house in South Bend as a "place of prayer". Almost nobody ever attended their services. I don't believe you can point to a single soul from there who is still with the LEF (and I think those who did join at some point can be counted on one hand). Perhaps JD had the idea that he could be a great blessing there, but it never happened. The house was of decent size but modestly furnished. It was a standard middle-class house. That they were self-sufficient (like every other evangelist is supposed to be) is highly suspect. In fact I was told that they owned some other property (apartments). This is what John Daniel referred to at his own wedding when he talked about "cleaning toilets, etc". Of course things like paying for the expensive US education of JD's five children is a great mystery.
The London LEF centre is registered as a UK charity. Trustees of UK charities are not supposed to benefit from that charity (except in very exceptional circumstances, and where the charity documents specifically allow for this; it is not clear where such documents can be accessed). Members of the immediate Daniel family are named trustees of LEF UK. One other named trustee draws at least £13,000 pa as a part-time salary from the Centre's registered resources. However the minutiae of what comprises this centre's income and expenditure are hard to discover, as an income of less than £250,000 pa does not have to be accounted for in detail. In 2009 there was an excess of approximately £200,000 over the 'normal' annual income, making well over £400,000 in all for that year. Although more details should be available for that particular year, it has so far not been possible to access them from the Government archives where they are allegedly stored. Hence one wonders where this extra £200,000+ came from, and where it went to. The thinking for some time has been that the London centre has provided a means of transferring money, from Indian collections and donations, to the Daniels in the USA (with Indian leaders such as Mr. Chakravarty using 'hawala' methods in terms of turning rupees into £UKs). Since those who run the London centre, and/or their adult children, are probably reading this, one wonders why they have not yet clarified their position if this supposition is untrue.
DeleteIf you are involved in running the London centre, or have some relevant information, perhaps you can assist, please?
I was informed by a wealthy friend of Kamala D in Germany that they paid the fees for Daniel children universities.
DeletePlease do publish the 100 pages report you prepared, let all the people know the truth
ReplyDeleteThe English and Telugu version of the book is ready and will be available outside the premises of BG between 15th and 25th May at a discounted price of Rs.20/-.The author & publisher is in discussion with Govt Authorities to explore if the publication has to be registered or can be distributed as a private The electronic version of the document is ready and available in Googlebookshelf by 15th May.
DeleteExcellent! Ensure that you also have appropriate permission to sell / hawk outside BG. Else they may get police help to push you out. Give copies to the westerners inside BG. If possible make a distribution network inside BG itself! Do post the link once it is online.
DeleteIt looks like many of these recent comments came from those living in other countries than India, even though much work was done, and many transactions were made in India. One thing is clear from what has been posted here - little evidence is produced for the enormous amount of speculations, presumptions, narrations and suspicion. If it is a fraudulent organization, it will crumble by itself; you and I do not need to do anything, but simply watch. God is great and people are not as they used to be in the past. Pray and leave the rest.
ReplyDeleteReformers are -
Spirit filled prayerful people.
They openly identified themselves and condemned un-biblical things.
They produced evidence in support of what they condemned, and not speculated things and spread rumors.
They stood for faith and never dillydallied.
The Whistleblowers are exposing the evil going on in LEF.We don't expect them to be reformers .It is people like the person posted this comment May 01,2014 7:46 pm who can become reformers.Please speak to your evangelist ,Lily and John and ask them to come out clean.Ask them to publish LEF Accounts in a Book and give it to every person who attends the retreat.
DeleteAnonymous has left a new comment on your post "IS THERE ANYTHING PEOPLE CAN DO TO CHANGE THE COUR...":
DeleteAnonymous May 01 @ 7.46pm: You express yourself naively. The evidence related here does sometimes come from other countries. Why should it not, since many Indian LEF families have family members who have migrated elsewhere for work purposes? I myself am a non-Indian who nevertheless had a close association with one of the European LEF branches for some years. I was personally asked to approach Joshua Daniel about LEF irregularities by a visiting, godly old Indian couple (now with their Saviour) who were highly respected by all in LEF and headed work in various centres over their long lives. They told me of their concerns, and that some of the other Indian leaders had spoken to Joshua Daniel about his behaviour, but that he would never listen. I personally witnessed examples of the alleged abuse, although in a modified form, as Joshua Daniel realised that his power over most Europeans was much more limited than over Indians in India. I spoke personally to Lily Daniel about the irregularities I had observed, including the lack of financial accountability, and the deliberate bullying of at least one local family who were considering worshipping elsewhere, when they tried to speak to the Daniels about their concerns. She had no answers, other than to imply that Joshua Daniel could say and do what he liked because he was people's 'spiritual father', to which I replied that the Bible tells us to call no man our spiritual father except our Father in Heaven. I have kept a detailed record of the conversations and events at that time, which I would not publish here because people's privacy needs to be honoured. However both Whistleblower and Suniemi have seen it. What evidence do you expect from those who post, other than personal experience, or documents where appropriate? Do you think that Mr. Sathy's letters were forged, or that he was wrong to rebuke Immanuel Chakravarty? Do you think that e.g. the correspondence between Josha Daniel and his nephew Caleb about the purchase of an expensive piano for the exclusive use of his daughter is forged, or is of no significance despite all the financial concerns that are coming to light? Have you bothered to look up for yourself the internet references given relating to property? Whilst there may be some speculation in what is posted in some cases, almost all of the accounts support each other and confirm that LEF and the Daniel family are guilty of what is generally stated. People do not give their names for a variety of reasons. Indians in India may be afraid of retribution from the Daniels and their henchmen, since this clearly happens. They may be afraid for others in their families, if not for themselves. Others, like me, only seem to be able conveniently to use the Anonymous option amongst those given. Re your comments about prayer and 'Spirit-filled' people: you speak of the Reformers; these spiritual giants in the 15/16/17C did not just sit back and pray. They publicly exposed the current corruption, through preaching, letters, and other means, and many were executed for doing so. If they had simply 'prayed' and waited for the Roman church to crumble spontaneously, we might not now have free access to the Word of God, and the freedom to worship in accordance with it (which freedom is again being eroded). Your advice about simply praying and standing back and watching is, in this situation, foolish - either that, or you have a vested interest in protecting the LEF and the Daniels from exposure. Certainly it reeks of the 'Danielistic' strategy of suppressing enquiry or action by implying that those who have concerns should never raise them, since to do so would be 'unspiritual'. Does the Lord really intend prayer to act as a barrier against the retribution deserved by unscrupulous 'hirelings'? I think not......
Wow... Really? People commenting are not from India and why should they bother about what is happening in India. Great argument!!! If you are now coming as a reformer to reform what is said on the blog, what stops you from identifying yourself openly? Can you do that my dear sir or madam? So, what is your bottomline? All of these are speculations, presumptions and narrations of suspicions by some loony people who are sitting and imagining stuff and need to stop whatever they are doing because you the spirit-filled man/woman is now come out and gave some "Godly" advice. If all of what is written on the blog is bunch of non-sense written by some presumptuous people who are just speculating, may we ask you why you are spending your precious time to read this? From what you wrote, you are not just reading but you are also going to great lengths to analyze what we write. What a hypocrite are you who is trying to give some "spirtual spin" to tell people to look the other way when LEF rogues are looting people during broad day light. We never asked for anybody's advice and considered opinion on whether or not we should do what we are doing. So, your unsolicited advice is not welcome. If all of whay you are reading is bothering you, simply do not read what we are posting. After all, these are just speculations...
ReplyDeleteWhat a joke @ Anonymous May01, 2015 7:46
ReplyDeleteIs it speculation that LEF never gives any receipts for donations and LEF hasn't been filing the required financial details with the government for years?
Is it speculation that LEF doesn't have proper auditing systems and transparency about its finances.
Is it speculation that the people involved in LEF administration are thugs threatening people while masquerading as church leaders
Is it speculation that LEF is highly un-biblical in its doctrine and the church's theology is based on fear rather than on faith.
Is it speculation that an LEF administrator favored by Lily Daniel committed acts of crime but still couldn't be removed from administration because he was possibly threatening an expose?
Is it speculation that LEF despite all its big talk is servile and very welcoming to rich people while constantly marginalizing the under privileged.
Is it speculation that LEF spends most of its unaudited funds on real estate and television.
Is it speculation that LEF left many of its workers to hang dry in their hour of need who have sacrificed to work in the ministry. Many times there wasn't even a courtesy call to find out how they are doing and getting along leave alone any financial help for the medical expenses.
Is it speculation that Lily Daniel has or shows some regard only for pastors who are bringing in significant money and constantly belittles and ignores the workers working hard in poor villages?
Despite all its grand pronouncements LEF has done nothing in Africa, is it speculation to think LEF leaders aren't interested in going to poor neighborhoods because there are no financial returns? Europe and America are apparently the new " mission fields". Oh yes we know they are!!!!
No one is indispensable in Christ's church. God's work can easily carry on without us. In fact, it can carry on much better without the help of those conceited folk who consider themselves indispensable! We must recognize this fact constantly. I once read of a prescription to humble the soul of anyone who considered himself “indispensable”! It was suggested that he fill a bucket with water and put his hand in it up to his wrist - and then pull it out. The hole that remains in the water will be a measure of how much he will be missed when he is gone!! Our gifts are useful to the church; but no-one is indispensable.
ReplyDeleteWe must be willing to withdraw into the background anytime God calls us to. But the self-centered Christian worker will never accept that. He will want to hold on to his position for as long as possible. Many such "Christian leaders" are rotting away on their "thrones" today, hindering the work of God. They do not know what it is to fade graciously into the background and let someone else take their place.
You've probably heard the saying that success without a successor is a failure. Jesus recognized this and trained people to carry on His work. In 3½ years He had trained others to take over the leadership of His work. What an example for us to follow!
Paul recognized the necessity of training other people to carry on the work. In 2 Timothy 2:2, he told Timothy, “What I have committed to you, I want you to pass on to other people who will in turn be able to train others (the fourth generation)" (Paraphrase). What Paul was saying in effect was, "You must ensure that you commit this treasure to others. Don't ever hinder people younger than you, from coming up." Even businessmen recognize the principle that “success without a successor is a failure”. But many Christian leaders haven’t recognized it. Truly, "the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light."
It is indeed nothing but self-centeredness that makes a man jealous of someone younger who can do things better than he can. Cain was jealous of the fact that God had accepted Abel but rejected him. If Abel had been older than him, that might have been tolerable. But it was the awful fact that his younger brother was better than him that made him furious enough to slay Abel.
We see the same in the case of Joseph and his brothers. Joseph received divine revelations, and that made all his ten older brothers green with jealousy – so jealous that they wanted to kill him.
King Saul was jealous of young David, because the women sang, "Saul has slain thousands while David has slain ten thousands." From that day he determined to kill him. Man's history - and alas, the history of the Christian church too - is filled with the same story over and over again.
Likewise, the elderly Pharisees were jealous of the popularity of the young Jesus of Nazareth and determined to get him crucified, at any cost.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, what a refreshing contrast it is to look at a man like Barnabas in the New Testament. He was a senior worker who took the newly-converted Paul under his wing, when no one else would accept Paul. Barnabas brought him to the church in Antioch and encouraged him. In Acts chapter 13, we read that Barnabas and Paul went out together on a missionary journey. And when Barnabas saw that God was calling this junior worker, Paul, to a larger ministry than his own, he willingly stepped back and graciously faded into the background. And the phrase, "Barnabas and Paul", changes almost unnoticed to "Paul and Barnabas" in the book of Acts. The Christian church suffers today, because there are few like Barnabas who know what it is to step back and let another be honored. We are willing to step back in matters of no importance. When passing through a door, for example, we don't mind stepping back and permitting another to go through first. But in the things that matter - such as position and leadership in the Christian church - we are not so ready to step back. Our self-life is so deceitful. We can have a false humility in things that don't count. But it is in important matters that we see ourselves as we really are.
James Chapter 3 ,verse 14 : But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth.
DeleteV15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly,sensual,demonic
V16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.
I present the following options to change the course of LEF.
ReplyDelete1.Show the Daniels (Lizard,her sister,brothers the door) and establish a leader other than WP and KP.
2.Reduce the offerings and Tithes by 90% and leave LEF Chamcha's (John & Lilly's Trust Members)to do an RCA (Root Cause Analysis).Whenever they realise the truth they would also realise that most of the people who left LEF will not come back.
It is public perception that LEF is becoming a bad dream which people wish to forget.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about! First you have no idea about what kind of work this is, and I suspect if you have even experience of salvation in the first place. My suspicion is, if you have either age or experience; all you have appears to be some education and entry level experience of work. Sorry, my tone may be a little bit hard, but that is what it is.
DeleteIt s not just a bad dream which people can just forget. It has affected the lives of so many people and still many are trapped
DeleteYou have absolutely no idea what you are talking about! First you have no idea about what kind of work this is,
DeleteExactly true, no one has any idea of what the LEF work is except to loot and live gloriously like and as kings.
and I suspect if you have even experience of salvation in the first place.
your suspicion is wrong, I was save but not to pilfer / steal / lick the boots of great humble people
My suspicion is, if you have either age or experience;
Both are related is it not, but for the Daniel family members only they are separated
all you have appears to be some education and entry level experience of work.
This is the exact description of the Daniel clan, not me, thanks for telling the truth
Sorry, my tone may be a little bit hard, but that is what it is
Soon you will realize what is the truth, but why does the ideas that the idea that Daniels must be removed give you jitters, it is definitely going to take place
Hello Whistleblower,
ReplyDeleteThe damage in LEF is very deep.The fundamentals of LEF itself is wrong.During my days we believed that JD was the supreme Guru.His mother,sister,brother were all revered as great messengers of God.Isnt this contrary to the word of God.
Everything done by LEF is contrary to the word of God.They create rules for others but do not follow it themselves.
99% of LEF evangelists are frustrated and fed up.These evangelists have spent 5 to 10 years in the Bible college doing all menial work in lef (Cleaning toilets,washing the cars of the daniels,washing the clothes and cleaning the house of daniels).I once saw Mrs.SD the cousin and sister in law of LD abusing an evangelist who was expected to dust and clean her house.JJD or Pigeon head who has married a non indian and has never been in a Bible College cannot claim control over LEF's properties and demand allegiance from LEF Evangelists.
Junior LD and Lizard Daniel have no business to thunder from LEF Pulpits.They are a stumbling block to the youth of LEF because of their poor moral standards.
LEF must be dissolved or those in the church must make a quick exit to other churches.
On 03 may 2015, at 10:28, Anonymous commented:
Delete“The damage in LEF is very deep.The fundamentals of LEF itself is wrong.During my days we believed that JD was the supreme Guru.His mother,sister,brother were all revered as great messengers of God.Isnt this contrary to the word of God. Everything done by LEF is contrary to the word of God.They create rules for others but do not follow it themselves. 99% of LEF evangelists are frustrated and fed up.These evangelists have spent 5 to 10 years in the Bible college doing all menial work in lef (Cleaning toilets,washing the cars of the daniels,washing the clothes and cleaning the house of daniels).I once saw Mrs.SD the cousin and sister in law of LD abusing an evangelist who was expected to dust and clean her house.JJD or Pigeon head who has married a non indian and has never been in a Bible College cannot claim control over LEF's properties and demand allegiance from LEF Evangelists. Junior LD and Lizard Daniel have no business to thunder from LEF Pulpits.They are a stumbling block to the youth of LEF because of their poor moral standards. LEF must be dissolved or those in the church must make a quick exit to other churches.”
So, you thunder from TV channels on “the message of Love” as a Christian speaker, but this is what you preach here as ‘anonymous’! Sorry but true!!
To Anonymous May 3 @ 10.28am:
ReplyDeleteYou have expressed the situation succinctly. More and more evidence of the Daniels' misdeeds and foolishness is appearing daily, as people realise that there are no curses that beset them when they expose wrongdoing, whoever they may be exposing! If only the majority, at least, could be persuaded simply to boycott the LEF and the Daniels and their henchmen! No congregations, no offerings, no sycophants, no LEF, and several Daniel additions to the unemployment queue/welfare services!
Those of you who have the integrity and ability to walk away, please, please do it!
".I once saw Mrs.SD the cousin and sister in law of LD abusing an evangelist who was expected to dust and clean her house." Really shocking to read. Even infidels won't do this to an evangelist.
ReplyDeleteAbuse ,gossip, betrayal, stealing lying, faking filth, if you have these you have big position in fellowship. To make it look they are internationally accepted they have to bribe people to support them and lock up people . why'do they send Wirson Paul somewhere else and spend solo much and some one from so far. Look. Who had a big fight with Caleb to send him away and other long time faithful once to get to the top. Hey get job for yourself. You live on others money and play all these pilot ICS. Shame on you.
ReplyDelete