This is first in the series of blog posts we will be publishing for people to decide if they should be present at upcoming May Retreat....
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May Retreat, an annual fanfare which once enjoyed its own "prominence" in LEF seems to be losing its ground. The leaders of LEF who once had the power to pick and chose whom they wanted to take to May retreat (as the quota was limited!!!) are now pleading and begging people to come to the May Retreat. The rogue family that is now losing its popularity seems to be coming down heavily on the "evangelists" to keep up the number of attendees at the retreat. The number of people each evangelist brings to the retreat might serve as an "annual performance appraisal" for the rogue family to assess the loyalties of these evangelists to LEF (rather to this rogue family). These annual retreats which were boasted of being the "life lines" for the spiritual welfare of LEF people have been on a path of decline for quite some years now. Some May retreats of earlier years are tainted with the blood of some innocent men who lost their lives because of these May retreats. Some families lost their bread winners exactly two years ago and we call them the "Victims of May Retreat." Women have become widows, children have become fatherless and parents have lost their able-bodied sons. However, their deaths were meaningless to many LEF folks as the "GOD MAN" on the top who also joined the land of the dead not too long ago gave a profound reason for the deaths of these 10 men who got killed on the way to Chennai who were going a week ahead of time to get the glorified "BEULAH GARDENS" ready for the saints of LEF to gather. We hear from people who were present in that May retreat that Joshua Daniel claimed that these men died because they disobeyed him and got on a lorry (truck) to come to Beulah garden instead of taking a train. Branding these men who lost their lives as being "DISOBEDIENT" apparently cleared Joshua Daniel and LEF of any kind of moral responsibility for the deaths of these men. We wonder if God himself would simplify the deaths of people like this... Oh well, JD the "GOD MAN" who arrogantly took the place of GOD could get away with any and all kind of nonsense without ever being questioned. In Joshua Daniel's convoluted logic, the deaths of these men were all because these men "DISOBEYED" him. So, here was a powerful message he sent to the people who came to that retreat - "IF YOU DISOBEY JOE, YOU WILL DIE LIKE THESE TEN MEN." The more perplexing thing about this episode was that the numerous "LEF saints" heard JD ramble what he did without a protest. Just like their master, some of these LEF people are dead in their conscience and their hearts are hardened so much that they are not capable of showing compassion even when seeing tragedies like these. This is a classic example that LEF is a "CULT" of highest order. Instead of mobilizing the resources to help the families of the deceased, these LEF rogues philosophized and deliberated the reasons for the deaths of these men. Ironically, the government (that JD railed his entire life as being anti-social) was the one which acted with compassion to announce one lakh ex-gratia to the families of the deceased while JD and the whole LEF community were passing their cruel judgments on top of not giving a paisa to the affected families. Dear readers, kindly recall that this same JD bought a piano for 35 lakhs for his daughter to show off her musical skills for people who come to these May retreats. It is rather surprising that the unfairness of it all did not strike a chord in the hearts of LEF people. How cruel can people be not to be moved by compassion to reach out to these families???
Here is the newspaper clipping to remind some LEF folks, who suffer from selective dementia:
Those of you are getting ready to go to yet another May Retreat, please be reminded that you may be in the danger of being labeled as yet another "DISOBEDIENT PERSON" who deserves to die if for some reason death gulps you down on the way to "BEULAH GARDEN" to join the LEF saints.
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May Retreat, an annual fanfare which once enjoyed its own "prominence" in LEF seems to be losing its ground. The leaders of LEF who once had the power to pick and chose whom they wanted to take to May retreat (as the quota was limited!!!) are now pleading and begging people to come to the May Retreat. The rogue family that is now losing its popularity seems to be coming down heavily on the "evangelists" to keep up the number of attendees at the retreat. The number of people each evangelist brings to the retreat might serve as an "annual performance appraisal" for the rogue family to assess the loyalties of these evangelists to LEF (rather to this rogue family). These annual retreats which were boasted of being the "life lines" for the spiritual welfare of LEF people have been on a path of decline for quite some years now. Some May retreats of earlier years are tainted with the blood of some innocent men who lost their lives because of these May retreats. Some families lost their bread winners exactly two years ago and we call them the "Victims of May Retreat." Women have become widows, children have become fatherless and parents have lost their able-bodied sons. However, their deaths were meaningless to many LEF folks as the "GOD MAN" on the top who also joined the land of the dead not too long ago gave a profound reason for the deaths of these 10 men who got killed on the way to Chennai who were going a week ahead of time to get the glorified "BEULAH GARDENS" ready for the saints of LEF to gather. We hear from people who were present in that May retreat that Joshua Daniel claimed that these men died because they disobeyed him and got on a lorry (truck) to come to Beulah garden instead of taking a train. Branding these men who lost their lives as being "DISOBEDIENT" apparently cleared Joshua Daniel and LEF of any kind of moral responsibility for the deaths of these men. We wonder if God himself would simplify the deaths of people like this... Oh well, JD the "GOD MAN" who arrogantly took the place of GOD could get away with any and all kind of nonsense without ever being questioned. In Joshua Daniel's convoluted logic, the deaths of these men were all because these men "DISOBEYED" him. So, here was a powerful message he sent to the people who came to that retreat - "IF YOU DISOBEY JOE, YOU WILL DIE LIKE THESE TEN MEN." The more perplexing thing about this episode was that the numerous "LEF saints" heard JD ramble what he did without a protest. Just like their master, some of these LEF people are dead in their conscience and their hearts are hardened so much that they are not capable of showing compassion even when seeing tragedies like these. This is a classic example that LEF is a "CULT" of highest order. Instead of mobilizing the resources to help the families of the deceased, these LEF rogues philosophized and deliberated the reasons for the deaths of these men. Ironically, the government (that JD railed his entire life as being anti-social) was the one which acted with compassion to announce one lakh ex-gratia to the families of the deceased while JD and the whole LEF community were passing their cruel judgments on top of not giving a paisa to the affected families. Dear readers, kindly recall that this same JD bought a piano for 35 lakhs for his daughter to show off her musical skills for people who come to these May retreats. It is rather surprising that the unfairness of it all did not strike a chord in the hearts of LEF people. How cruel can people be not to be moved by compassion to reach out to these families???
Here is the newspaper clipping to remind some LEF folks, who suffer from selective dementia:
People must consider if it is worth going through the pain travelling several hours to reach Chennai ,stay in substandard accommodation and listen below par self congratulatory messages by John.
ReplyDeleteJohn and his family ,his mom LD and Junior LD will travel First Class to reach Chennai.They will drive from Chennai Airport to Beulah Gardens in Air Conditioned Cars.They have a special kitchen for them.As per my estimate the travel bill from Michigan -South Lyon,South -Bend to Madras for the family by First Class would be Rs.12 Lakhs or 120000 USD.
120,000 USD in Indian rupees is close to 78 Lakhs... Yes, the first class tickets are $12,000 per person. If indeed they travel first class, this rogue family will bill LEF a whooping 75 lakhs as travel costs to come and adorn the May retreat pulpits to preform their daily circus shows for 10 full days.
Deletedear whistleblower,
Deleteafter reading this comment I emailed to Bro.John and asked him about who paying his family TA/DA to India. he replied that all the travelling expenses for his family borne by him only. You may say he is telling lies. Ok then where is the proof that he is telling lies. we cannot infer everything based on certain things. As I asked him I'm asking you to prove it or withdraw the above comments. davidpaul
Anonymous @April 28 3:26 a.m
DeletePlease ask Bro John one more question ...... Who is paying him may be the LEF
Dear David Paul, we are impressed with your interest in sending an email to ask JJD about this. We are surprised that JJD replied to you. Can you please do us a favor and do the following?
Delete1. Forward your email conversation to savelefi@hotmail.com
2. Can you also send another email to JJD and find out who pays him and when he replies, please send that email conversation as well?
Dear David Paul
DeleteIt would seem that John Daniel has been in and out of work in recent years. According to records, his latest or current employment, which looks like some kind of consultancy conducted from his home (if indeed it can be called ' his' home, since it was apparently originally provided as a 'retreat centre' from LEF funds), brings in something in excess of $50,000 pa. He has a widowed mother to support (since her husband never worked or had a personal income, so presumably no pension or insurance - and in any case insisted that all his adherents 'lived by faith', so surely he must have done likewise?). John Daniel also has a wife and five college age daughters to support, plus the usual car and other expenses which are characteristic of USA living. I doubt that Mrs. Birgit Daniel's career as a 'missionary to India' allows her to contribute much to the family budget....unless, of course, LEF pays her a stipend!
Even if they all live in the rent-free environment of a supposed 'retreat centre', it is hard to see how John Daniel could afford to pay for regular, expensive trips to India from the USA for his extended family out of his current income, bearing in mind college expenses etc.
Mr. David Paul, I would suggest that, in the present climate of more and more exposures about the financial irregularities in LEF, the onus lies with you to acquire proof from John Daniel as to who pays for his family outings to India, rather than with the enquirer whom you have asked either to prove that LEF did pay for them, or to withdraw his post.
Of course if the Daniels had encouraged a right and proper system of accounting for tithes, offerings, and other LEF income and expenditure, they would not be under the increasing suspicion that they now are.
Dear David Paul
Deleteafter reading this comment I emailed to Bro.John and asked him about who paying his family TA/DA to India. he replied that all the travelling expenses for his family borne by him only.
You have left out DA
Him is ok but who pays him (by talking like this JJD thinks and acts like a schoolboy)
You may say he is telling lies.Ok then where is the proof that he is telling lies.
Same way what is the proof that he is telling the truth
Please ask him the source of funding, whether the money is paid from any LEF accounts / personal account, and also please ask him how he can afford such a lifestyle after being unemployed for 3 years, also please ask him how he is misusing the LEF address for a business consultantcy
we cannot infer everything based on certain things.
But that is what exactly you are doing,
As I asked him I'm asking you to prove it or withdraw the above comments.
No one who is unemployed and lives in USA can afford a life like this, FYI let me tell as story, The teacher asked "who killed Gandhi?", one student replied the ", No one, the bullet killed him" .Earlier the great JD used to tell similar stories, "Many a time I didn't have 10 Rupees in my pocket" (the meaning was I have only 100's). One poor evangelist told me " Among those ho own Mercedes he is the humblest" Some of the clan even now claim, I didn't give a single rupee, I only transferred money from a Bank. or I Only gave a credit card" As written in the book Alice in wonderland, JD and JJD want their words to mean what they want them to.
Mr. David Paul, waiting for your replies, please check whether the John who replied to you is the same exalted John Daniel Garu / any other, as John is a common name, You have a bright future in the LEF keep up the good work.
Deletei already replied. this foolish john caleb not publishing it.david paul
DeleteWho is this John Caleb? John Daniel changed his last name from Daniel to Caleb? Now that he changed his last name, you are gathering courage to call him "FOOLISH" You rock,Bravo. Keep up the good work, David Paul now that you seem to have come to your senses and addressing John Daniel who has become John Caleb "FOOLISH"
DeleteJohn drove a Mercedes before he graduated college (Notre Dame), not sure how U buy a Mercedes without a job, also everyone in our group was asked to attend their Bible school during the winter, John never went as it would of interfered with his education, also it was planed from way back in 85 that John would take over, unfortunately the caste system is still in operation I noticed long ago they would talk of their birth rights. Using religion to take peoples money and dominate from the love of self is Balamism.
DeleteThis news was widely published in the media in India.JD never bothered to condole the death of these innocent believers.I was told that 3 members of a family (Father,son and son in law died).Maybe JD expected the family to give him One Tenth /All the money given as Ex Gratia Payment (1 Lakh Indian Rupees or 900 dollars).
ReplyDeleteWhile you may have meant this to be sarcastic, this is not far form reality. Few years ago a doctor, his wife and the doctor's mother were murdered (yes murdered) by land mafia where they doctor and his wife with a family of two young children were sent by Joshua Daniel to build a hospital. The two young children of this couple became orphans when both the parents were killed. Joshua Daniel, the monster with an evil intention of getting the insurance money of this Neurosurgeon sent a letter to the grand parents of these orphaned children to leave these children in Jhansi where their parents were murdered so that LEF can start an orphanage with these two children. That way JD wanted to control all the insurance money that Neurosurgeon would have gotten... Behind the benevolent image JD projected, he was a heartless stone whose only focus was to expand his empire which he called LEF even if it meant the loss of precious lives.
DeleteWhy not, the fools in the LEF give them their money and the authority to spend as they like, who will not use such an oppurtunity. Be happy that they dont buy and fly in a new jet, and land in a helicopter in Beulah Gardens. The family will say "Oh we are so hard pressed for time, we will fly in just before our meeting from Hotel Hitlon from Paris, go back and fly back for the evening service" the starving masses will clap and say praise God who has revelaed this great truth to the junior master.
DeleteNo one is aware of what exactly happened in Jhansi, Many years ago there was an idea that the money invested there was from LEF treasury. But I know a few things. JD made a great drama, that they were killed for being Christians, I also know that many did give him money in foreign countries to be passed on to the children which he swallowed.I also know how much his bagman troubled the children and their guardians. But take heart, the Lord Jesus did not abandon the children, now I am so happy to see them established in life
DeleteIn this tragedy, there were some questions. The official news was that 10 or more travelled from their village, in a open lorry, which had cement bags. The lorry driver was drunk and overturned the vehicle and 10 were killed.
Delete1. Was the cement meant for construction in Beulah Gardens.
2. Were the sacks containing cement / rice
3. Were the 10 volunteers carrying their own provisions to cook and eat in Beulah Gardens
4. Was this the first time / last time lorries were used to travel
5. If they were instructed to travel by train will LEF pay them their train fare, if yes for how many people has it paid since the tragedy
6. As fas as I know never had JD instructed to travel by train instead of truck.
7. Ok why not pay the destitute widows and children at least Rs. 5,00,000 = $10,000 to enable them to survive
8. How much bribe was paid to cover-up, cant a similar amount be used for rehabilitation
8. This is not the first time, there was a boy called as Smiley Paul who did a lot of video work for LEF, he got injured in a bike accident, as the bike driver never had driven a bike for long distances. Smiley Paul died, both JD and JJD were in the HQ, they didn't even bother to attend the funeral. Smiley Paul's mother was so poor, and a widow, JD refused to give her a penny / rupee. But from that day only I understood what a monster he was
In the picture you can see a gas cylinder, What was the role of it in a cement lorry, the provisions these poor people were carrying, both as an offering and also for food fell on them and crushed them to death. They were unpaid and unfed. But God will notice all these things
DeleteJust an aside, really!
DeleteWe have recently been treated on Facebook to the 'moving' sight of Betty Daniel a.k.a. Liz Van Camp cradling tiny victims of the Nepal earthquake, following her sudden flight to that disaster-stricken country in order to 'help' (doing what, we might ask? - other than posting said pictures, and making a video of one of the doctors in a prayer meeting, in the course of which Betty can be clearly and perhaps deliberately, identified fervently murmuring 'Thank you, Jesus!', and so forth).
Question: now that Nepal has suffered a further serious earthquake, will Betty be forsaking the imminent May retreat a.k.a. circus in order to rush back to Katmandu and again offer to assist by means of her valuable photographic skills? Or will the lure of the expensive piano and being the centre of attention whilst she pounds on it and warbles (now that her Dad is no longer around to forbid her presence in Beulah Gardens) prove sufficiently overwhelming to crush any further 'philanthropic' impulses?
Watch this space......
Another question: where were Betty and family when these poor LEF men were killed in a road accident, and their bereaved families were left grieving and unsupported by those whose 'spiritual leadership' had caused them to be in that situation?
Bit of an anomaly here, surely?
And yet another question: Who paid for Betty's trip to Katmandu/Chennai? Probably not the proceeds from Van Camp Insurance, if the online negative reviews are anything to go by. Perhaps the little church of which she claims to be 'co-pastor'? Or could it again be the tithes and offerings extracted from largely unquestioning Indian LEF adherents?
(No disrespect to the earthquake victims intended. We genuinely grieve and pray for them in their ongoing suffering)
The LEF trainees (!), their wives and children live in human conditions without even a toilet in Beulah Gardens, In my opinion at conditions worse than the earthquake affected. The children are not given the benefits of good education, Not a single school van is provided. In the retreat many still live under the trees and under agricultural sheds. While the fat lizards live in luxury. This particular female lizard married an already married man so that she can milk her dad for one last time, got enough money, spent it on getting a boat for her unfortunate present husband. Now the money got over, Apart from the LEF where will you get a paid holiday where your Airfare is paid and from the moment you land you are treated better than royalty, car . servants, butlers, jokers are all ready, So she must come to retreat, the unfortunate incidents at Nepal provided the perfect excuse, Now her mother LD will parrot" I wanted to go, God told me to Go but I asked my daughter to go" , and all expenses will be written to the LEF poor peoples offerings. Does the Lizard know that LEF has a school in Nepal, did she visit there, did she give 1 rupee of her money for their resettlement.Such lizards only lead the Government of Nepal to kick out all such Disaster Tourists, Now one or two special offerings will be taken at the retreat for paying lizards pocket money. Is there a board in LEF, why did it ask a person who is not a member to visit Nepal on its behalf or like bonded servants did the spineless old men and women pass a resolution after lizard has left. Why cant the lizard wake up and see the condition of the trainees who are trained to wash her car and clean her room.Shame less , moral less fat pig, and same to her family.Only when we all get up and spit on her face and kick her out , such semi domesticated lizards will run to the forest.
DeleteAfter the retreat the believers from LEF will fast and pray.The month of June is called the month of prayer.While the faithful pray the family will fun and frolic in Masinagudi.
ReplyDeleteFew years back Lizard and her boyfriend(her present husband) had fun in Masinagudi.They Jumped on an elephant and boy the Pachyderm felt embarrassed watching these kids having fun and ran away into the woods.
From that day the Elephant became as pink as a rose due to embarrassment, it is still pink
DeleteWho knows those same funny men may need to come and pray for our survival when nothing works for us!
DeleteIf these funny men are so great that their prayers will help to survive, why doesnt the LEF great family accompany them to Nepal. or may be Bangladesh / Bhutan
Well, there are many now, who are more educated than in the previous decades in the retreats from more cities and metros.
DeleteI am sorry but your are deluding yourself, there are no new young people.
Only old faithful s
By this, I do not say that there are no mistakes in people and organization; they have been there throughout! But in performing a surgical treatment, if we cut as in a post-mortem exam, then that is the problem! Let us be careful.
Post mortem follows surgery, both are different, Surgery is done on a living patient, Post mortem on a dead corpse, thanks, you accept that the LEF is already dead, Bury it deep before the smell overpowers and diseases spread
Points to be Noted. Please don't say "old and faithful"
DeleteSay "old and forced bonded laborers without interest.
Yes every thing is done as a duty. More over no Evangelists is paid properly and they work for their life - no retirement or leaves nothing.. just work and some be faithful an get thrown out even without proper medical help when they get weak. so they are definitely treated worse than bonded laborers.
Even most evangelists work as a routine without interest just for the heck of it.
Others don't know what to do, so its just a time pass thingy they are sticking on. No more genuineness.
There is neither any target / Achievement for an evangelist, nor any review, they are only expected to bring money, No promotion, No salary No retirement No pension, They are Royal family's retainers. No wonder they become mechanical and forced bonded laborers without interest.
DeleteMr.Anonymous April 28 2014 10:24 Pm
DeleteThe only qualification to be an evangelist in LEF is to be a good chamcha,chela.
Pray Hypocritical prayers (Before John preaches pray Lord,Father,God etc etc please use John Garu Mightily and after the message pray Lord thank you for speaking to me thru your servant the one and only Bro.Pigeonhead John).
Send more money from the center to LEF.Convince people that if you give to LEF all your problems will be solved.Take a cut but send the lion share to LEF HQ.
If the evangelist have these attributes they will become great evangelists of LEF.John will name them as exemplary people of God in the retreat.
It's sad to read about those recent LEF deaths. The Daniel family has always been good about washing their hands of responsibility.
ReplyDeleteThe much less serious but more widespread tragedy in the LEF is the spiritual paralysis which hits its members. Many people join the LEF because they are hungry for God's presence and want fellowship with like-minded people. While some people enjoy this, the crazy nonsense in the LEF turns many people into basket cases. They witness so much emotional abuse (I'm not even talking about the money matters) and yet have become convinced that everyone in other churches is shallow and unconverted, so they have no place to go.
If someone leaves the LEF, those who stay are either told that the one who left was unfaithful or weak or something else negative. An important factor in the breakdown of the Canadian LEF (1996) was because a family decided to leave. JD announced to the group that the father was "unstable" and other negative things. This was actually a very supportive family. When the remaining people saw how this brother was treated, they protested. They started talking with each other about their LEF concerns (all LEFers know that this is taboo). They invited JD to address their concerns and begin a process of healing. Instead, he just told them that they were out of touch with God. What did they do? They stood up for what was right and said they would do things honorably. At that point the Daniels dropped out from the scene. The Daniels were told to come pick up all their literature or it would be recycled. It is many years later and I understand that ALL of the Canadians are so happy that they are no longer part of the LEF. They are following God's leading without the LEF shackles. Several are using their gifts as leaders in churches. One is a missionary with a well-established organization.
From what I know, majority of the participants at this retreat are from rural villages and small towns in Andhra Pradesh (AP). It is more of a yearly spiritual pilgrimage for most of them, as this is the only occasion to step out of their small villages/towns and visit a BIG city like Chennai (Madras) and enjoy the experience of a long train journey. The “free” boarding/loading at BG for 10 full days is the biggest attraction. They see it as a huge bargain, who otherwise cannot afford a regular lodge even for a day or two in a place like Chennai.
ReplyDeleteThey save-up money throughout the year for this trip and spend it all away at the tuck-shop, bookshop and offerings. Most of them are caught snoozing during the boring messages. So, I won’t be surprised to see a crowd again this year. They are all there for entirely different reasons, not to hear JJD, LD, LD jr, singing of D5 or rest of the funny men imported from US/UK/Australia and other places.
However, it is true, in the past few years educated younger people, including those who grew up in LEFI and those from the cities and metros have stopped coming to these retreats.
The third and final volume of JD autobiography is expected to be released this year. That should take care of the Business class travel of the entire Daniel clan. Perhaps LD should come-up with her volumes too.
On 27 April 2015, at 13:46, Anonymous commented:
DeleteFrom what I know, majority of the participants at this retreat are from rural villages and small towns in Andhra Pradesh (AP). It is more of a yearly spiritual pilgrimage for most of them, as this is the only occasion to step out of their small villages/towns and visit a BIG city like Chennai (Madras) and enjoy the experience of a long train journey. The “free” boarding/loading at BG for 10 full days is the biggest attraction. They see it as a huge bargain, who otherwise cannot afford a regular lodge even for a day or two in a place like Chennai.
Most of them are caught snoozing during the boring messages. So, I won’t be surprised to see a crowd again this year. They are all there for entirely different reasons, not to hear JJD, LD, LD jr, singing of D5 or rest of the funny men imported from US/UK/Australia and other places.
However, it is true, in the past few years educated younger people, including those who grew up in LEFI and those from the cities and metros have stopped coming to these retreats.
Well friend, I do not know who you are and your status! I wish it best! If all of us go a few generations before, we were all like those people you mentioned above. So, if you are in a better financial position with good education, and living in a metro, thank God for it and not forget your fore-fathers’ status. Again, the people you mentioned above may be poor but God used them mightily and glorified His name. They may respect elderly people more than they should; but they themselves were close to God through their prayers, and association with other believers.
You also mentioned about ‘funny men imported from other countries!’ Let us not forget that we are only human beings! Who knows those same funny men may need to come and pray for our survival when nothing works for us!
You mentioned that in the past few years, educated young people from cities and metros stopped coming to retreats! Well, there are many now, who are more educated than in the previous decades in the retreats from more cities and metros. By this, I do not say that there are no mistakes in people and organization; they have been there throughout! But in performing a surgical treatment, if we cut as in a post-mortem exam, then that is the problem! Let us be careful.
One can only pity a slave like you who the members of the rogue family count on to blow the trumpets of LEF's past glory. Your perverse mind worked well to conclude that the earlier comment was being derogatory to poor... You successfully managed to miss the point...
Deletehahahaah .... Anonymous@April 27, 2015 7:09 PM. ... you can satisfy your self with such reasoning... not good enough though. You can try some thing else. Go boy go..... don't try that which is not of your reach...... we can "TRY" to accept it as a comedy statement...
DeleteYou know one thing ... we can clearly ascertain from all the defensive comments of this blog that you fools are still trying to cover-up more dung
and you are trying to justify all evil that is happening. Is this not more than proof enough.....
I have no time for either LEF or the Daniel leadership, but perhaps you (Anonymous 27.4 @ 7.23pm) have been a little harsh here re Anonymous 27.4 @ 7.09pm. He/she does have a point.......although his/her implication that LEF should be encouraged to survive is neither desirable nor tenable, with or without the prayers of 'funny foreign men'! Speaking as a 'funny foreigner' myself, the last thing I would pray for is LEF's survival in any shape or form, since it has always rested on an unbiblical basis, for which reason it is in its present (but predictable) parlous state.
DeleteThe valid points are that there are, and always have been, simple LEF men and women who, despite the bad teaching, nepotism, fraudulent activity, thieving, and lack of sound theological and ecclesiological basis, have truly loved The Lord. Also I think it must be true that many 'educated' folk continue to attend the May retreat. I know some......and there seemed to be quite a number of students at the student camp, despite the fact that they must have been aware by then that their idol and his family had/have feet of clay. Why they do this is a mystery to those with enough common sense and desire for truth to have rejected LEF; however one reason may be that they feel they have something more to gain from LEF association, and much to lose by abandoning it (quite what this is must be filled in by the people concerned, but there must certainly be a degree of worldly thinking here, even if disguised with spiritual terminology!). It is also a well-known phenomenon that cults and their leaders can exercise an incomprehensible influence over all kinds of people, including 'educated' folk. The Jonestown massacre horrifically demonstrated that. Education does not necessarily eradicate psychological confusion or distress, and that is what cult leaders play on.
Perhaps Anonymous 7.09pm is indeed an LEF adherent ('slave') who is trying to support its crumbling edifice, but we would do well not to throw the baby out with the bath water - throw away LEF by all means, but respect those who do genuinely love the Biblical Jesus and help them to escape any further LEF poisoning.
That, of course, is what this site is all about.....
The Late JD was very fond of Stuartpuram.He used to publish in his LEF Annual Report of how he impressed the crowds in Stuartpuram.
DeleteThe People in Andra ,Telengana and TN know why Stuartpuram is famous.May be JD loved to brag about his Stuartpuram exploits because he learnt some tricks at Stuartpuram.
Dear Anonymous April 28, 2015 2:54 AM. If you have seen many students at the students camp many of them are forced to attend by their respective evangelists because the evangelists force the parents of their kids to send them. I have been an unwilling participant for many years. some students just wanna have attend as they get to stay away from home especially girls. If you want to know first hand information try doing a survey I'm sure more than 95 % will fall under the below category.
Delete1. parent pressure
2. to please local evangelists
3. Its just a fun trip away from home
4. or just because my church member is going I'm accompanying them
Dear Anonymous 28 April @ 6.41am
DeleteI must admit I based my 'student camp' comment on what I could see on the video recording of the last 'message' given by JJD (and what an embarrassing travesty of 'preaching' that was!).
The reasons you have given for the apparently still high student attendance in 2015 make perfect sense. However why don't the young people who are aware of the true nature of LEF refuse to go (discounting the 'fun trip' attendees, of course)? I would have thought that the publicity which this site and the 'Suniemi' site has given since last year to the evil which is currently the LEF would have given them some backing now, even if in years gone by it was more difficult to rebel. But what do I, as an older generation non-Indian, understand of the family and other local pressures experienced by Indian youngsters?
The important thing now is that as many people as possible, who have any connection at all with LEF under the direction of the very dubious Daniels, acknowledge that it is not an organisation that committed Christians should have anything to do with. That applies whether you are young or old, or come from India, Great Britain, the USA, Germany, France, Malaysia, Australia, or anywhere else where this now poisonous 'fellowship' has a foothold.
Maybe some people feel embarrassed by having been duped for many years. I sometimes feel embarrassed at having been taken in for a comparatively short period, but when I did realise that there were things that did not add up, I left, even though it meant changing my worship habits and leaving behind people whom I loved as Christian brothers and sisters.
We serve a living Saviour, not a dead confidence trickster.
Here is why young people are not allowed the freedom to chose what church they go to-
Delete1. LEF cult leaders demonized everything that is non-LEF. It is not enough to go to a "church" to be saved. One has to go only to "LEF church" to be saved.
2. They attach a "backslider" tag to every LEF person who chooses to dissociate themselves from LEF.
3. People are terrified into believing that the one who leaves LEF will be cursed. People are told that they will go mad, will give birth to handicapped children, will become demon possessed....if they leave LEF.
I am sure there more reasons that people can add on
Anonymous commented on April 28, 2015 6:41 AM
Delete“Dear Anonymous April 28, 2015 2:54 AM. If you have seen many students at the students camp many of them are forced to attend by their respective evangelists because the evangelists force the parents of their kids to send them. I have been an unwilling participant for many years. some students just wanna have attend as they get to stay away from home especially girls. If you want to know first hand information try doing a survey I'm sure more than 95 % will fall under the below category.1. parent pressure2. to please local evangelists 3. Its just a fun trip away from home4. or just because my church member is going I'm accompanying them.”
Friend on the other hand, there are many parents who plead with the pastors to take their rebellious children and those with the mentality you mentioned to the retreats, because of the hard - time they have at home with them. Some of these students after attending the retreats got into the knowledge of God and became useful to themselves, their families and society! Your survey missed these cases.
Dear friend, you are telling "ONCE UPON A TIME..." stories when everything used to be picture perfect. LEF is so far removed from that once picture perfect state and the need of the hour is to see things as they are and not as they were meant to be. That needs courage and not many in LEF neither have the courage nor the integrity to acknowledge the down fall of LEF.
DeleteThe Daniel Children attended more than 50 retreats and were so much rebellious children, and still are not useful to themselves, their families and society!, the LEF has to mollycoddle and take care of their needs, Hope they don't kick you
DeleteHello Anonymous @ 28 April 2015, at 12:18, Anonymous you said it right - it was parent pressure that made them go there. If you have read properly I've mentioned 95 % . So out of the 5 % that is left may be you can fill in your "MAY BE" 1 % ( got into the knowledge of God) and the other 3 or 4 % may be other reasons like fooled by lef and came in to see whats going on ect.
DeleteLooks like you are a ardent fan and supporter or may be an Evangelist. Let me make it clear to you. I have attended around 20 plus lef students camps. I have seen how your clan has fooled students
You are also fooled by students. They simply act so pious in front and you are floored too. Outside I have witnessed firsthand how they are.
Just simple reflection of how you people are. (samples - IC, JR, DM) Preach one thing and live another.
On 29 april 2015, at 05:14, Anonymous commented:
DeleteHello Anonymous @ 28 April 2015, at 12:18, Anonymous you said it right - it was parent pressure that made them go there. If you have read properly I've mentioned 95 % . So out of the 5 % that is left may be you can fill in your "MAY BE" 1 % ( got into the knowledge of God) and the other 3 or 4 % may be other reasons like fooled by lef and came in to see whats going on ect.
If the life a young person is changed by the saving power of God, and if he could become useful to himself, his family and society, what else is more rewarding? Does not matter even if it is 1%; God is happy about that one person than with the 99% who do not want him. No retreat or religious meeting is conducted expecting 100% result – in particular, a “students’ retreat”!
Does not matter who I am, but if what I say makes some sense, that is enough.
so uncontrolled open stealing, family enjoyment are all OK if one person becomes useful, But with such models is it not a fraud to preach one thing and live another life, such preaching will not produce any results.
DeleteNo retreat or religious meeting is conducted expecting 100% result – in particular, a “students’ retreat”!
No the LEF retreats are conducted expecting to grab money and it results in 100% success
Does not matter who I am, but if what I say makes some sense, that is enough.
I do not care who or what you are, but what you say does not make sense, it is supporting robbery
When everything is O.K., naturally one does not care, but when something goes terribly wrong – particularly with problems with growing children, sudden death, getting disabled for the rest of the life in an accident etc., we look for help, hope, support, and cure, when we DO CARE, which we ignored earlier! Looks like the author of the comments you referred to meant entirely a different thing; he never seemed to have even remotely supported any robbery. I am sure you stopped putting your coins into the offering bag of the said organization you are against, so where is the need for you to worry?
DeleteThank you to everybody who contributes to this site, especially those who clarified what happened in Germany and Canada. Also I had no idea that people had been killed because of their association with LEF.
ReplyDeleteA sad aspect of all this is that JD probably was so steeped in the assumption of his own importance, and the mistaken idea that in some (entirely unbiblical) way God had bestowed on him some kind of special 'anointing', that 'even if an angel from Heaven' had shown him the error of his ways he would almost certainly not have repented. It is not our business to speculate about what happened when he met his Maker face to face last year, but one cannot help wondering.......
Certainly we should all take lessons from this, but perhaps especially those who are currently assuming leadership in LEF. It is not too late for them to disassociate themselves from LEF, and metaphorically wash the stains of this corrupt organisation out if their garments. 'North American' has very effectively explained what LEF can do, mentally, to even genuinely seeking people who are not Indians, and we have to applaud the way in which the Canadians separated themselves and dealt with the Daniels. However Mr. Sathy, with many years of loyal LEF service in India, has also acted nobly, and in doing so consciously put himself and his family at risk from the LEF 'goondas' and 'chamchas'.
These people are the ones to whom LEF attenders should be looking as examples of godliness, not cult leaders like Joshua and Lily Daniel, and others of their errant family.
It is very sad that these deceased people were not publicly remembered by an organisation that claims to be a church. This incident confirms Dr. Werner Hoerschelmann observation nearly 40 years ago: “The members who come from lower social classes (labourers, coolies, the unemployed persons) are marginalized in the group.” But sadly these uneducated people are drawn towards the Daniels.
ReplyDeleteChristian Gurus – Part 3 – Joshua Daniel - Section VII - 2
If this happened in America, most churches would have grieved with the grieving families and lovingly given emotional and financial support. Jesus said “I am giving you a new commandment to love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. This is how everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13:34, 35) I have seen this love first hand with Americans. But Joshua Daniel only had criticism for America. In the May Retreat there are long queues to get the simple meals. Even to dish out the rice, watery sambar and side-dish they can’t have enough servers. In American churches many willingly volunteer. Once after seeing the long queue in the afternoon heat in Beulah Gardens, I wanted to take a couple of vessels and spoons and start a new line to serve the people. Sadly I didn’t do it.
Even to the disaster like in Nepal every organization in the world even Hindus send help.Dubai Muslims who are against Hinduism are helping but LEF is the only one waiting for the vacation after the retreat. LD's and followers greed swallowed many lives,jobs given up, families separated and lost but LD is the only one has her family around and all working and enjoying all the sacrifices of the poor people. There are so many secrets in the families of her followers. It looks like she is hunting only for such followers to cover up her own. But all of them have the same style of talking walking and abusing others even blood shed covered up. LEF is the church that fulfills the endtime church prophecy. Deception is the number one problem in churches in end time.
Deletemathew 24 3-4 3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" 4And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.
1 thimothy 4" 1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,… All LD and her followers fit into these discription. Mathew 7:15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?… LD AND FOLLOWERS YOUR FRUIT SPEAK FOR YOURSELF. STOP CHEATING PEOPLE
Mr.Sunemi Your blog and the whistleblower Blog are eye-openers to the people to the people blinded by LEF's Bull s*** .Please continue the good work.While writing blogs we must be careful to give ideas to those who continue to suffer under the Daniel Regime.
DeleteCan we compare the Daniel Regime to Hitler,Stalin,Gaddafi or Mohammed Bin Thuglag or do we call LEF "Lost Eccentric Fools".Those who were fooled hitherto (80 years) the LEF believers must show the door to LD,JJD and their relatives.
One of JDs cousin passed away and dr. K and her husband Mr. S were sent to the cousins brother to ask for the property be transferred to lefi.
ReplyDeleteRe: people going to great lengths to attend May retreats:
ReplyDeleteJoshua Daniel tediously told the same self-congratulatory tales over and over again in his 'preaching', sometimes to the embarrassment of the people involved in them. I remember one Indian gentleman, a surgeon, who admitted to being embarrassed by repeatedly being made to 'share' at the same retreats a story involving a 'bandit chief' whose daughter was brought for treatment to an LEF hospital.
A Joshua Daniel anecdote which was frequently told, but which puzzled me, was how a group of ardent LEF followers wanted so much to travel from, I think Burma?, to be at a May retreat, that they actually broke laws governing international borders to cross over into India secretly. Joshua Daniel thought this was incredibly admirable, whereas I wondered how this fitted in with the Bible's instructions to believers in Jesus to obey the laws of their country (unless these required them to deny their Saviour in some way).
One can perhaps see how this kind of manipulation and distortion of Christian duty and morals can be used to justify all the abuses which are now coming to light.
I posted, “From what I know, majority of the participants at this retreat are from rural villages and small towns in Andhra Pradesh (AP)…….”
ReplyDeleteJust saw a comment from one of the “faithful follower” condemning my comments. Mr. Pigeon head (that is how JD Jr referred to Indians in the last May retreat), please read my comments carefully ONCE AGAIN. Don’t be ridiculous. At no point did I even remotely refer to anyone’s status or talked lightly of the poor. Pathetic to see your misinterpretation and the conclusion you deliberately drew missing the REAL point.
I have very closely watched the decline over several decades, some of my extended family members still attend LEFI and from time to time get the “inside news”. Children of the earlier Evangelists saw how their parents worked hard, lived faithfully and expanded the work in so many places, yet they were accused, abused and during the time of need/ illness they were abandoned or simply ask to leave the center and replaced by another “worker”. Some of them were rendered homeless and lived at the mercy of their kind congregation for support and financial help. It is not surprising, non of the those kids considered following in their parents foot-steps. Why would they? But God has been faithful. Many of those children are now doing well, holding good jobs, most of them are in other countries serving God in their respective corners. They are valued and appreciated by the Churches attend.
Initially I thought it was JD Jr who is taking strong exception to those remarks and responded. But soon I realized, the guy cannot even speak a single cohesive sensible sentence, so figured out it is one of his English Literature goondas.
On 28 april 2015, at 14:40, Anonymous commented:
DeleteI posted, “From what I know,…….”
Just saw a comment from one of the “faithful follower” condemning my comments. Mr. Pigeon head …..
I have very closely watched the decline over several decades, some of my extended family members still attend LEFI and from time to time get the “inside news”…..
Initially I thought it was JD Jr who is taking strong exception to those remarks and responded. But soon I realized, the guy cannot even speak a single cohesive sensible sentence, so figured out it is one of his English Literature goondas…..
“From your previous and present comment, the audience understand that –
1. You are not from a village. 2. You can stay in a hotel and pay your bills for attending a religious convention for more than two days unlike the other villagers who attend retreats in Chennai. 3. You have exposure to, or actually live in a metro, about which you take pride in! 4. Your opinion about your English language skills is – ‘simply fantastic’! We got it all madam! But you were absolutely right when you said in the very beginning of your previous comment itself, “From what I know, …” Yes, there is a lot more that you did not know despite your decades of stay in LEF! By the way, what happened to your "courage?" Just a reminder!
The "pigeon head" that you proved yourself to be, it did take quite a few iterations of going through what Anonymous April 28, 2015 2:40 PM originally posted to find something for you to make a scholarly observation about. Kudos to whoever you are because you seemed to have worked extra hard to find fault with the original comment. If you work half as hard to inquire into the frauds of LEF and why this site is exposing these frauds, you would've done a great favor not only to yourself but also to some gullible people. You suffer from a great inferiority complex, my dear friend and no wonder you are where you are intellectually. You want to jump and up down without understanding the essence of what is being said and want to accuse others of insulting the poor and the uneducated as in your own mind you are afflicted with the thoughts that you are less equal than others. You come out as somebody who is jealous of people who have more than you do (or at least you think are better off than you are). How sad and pathetic is your psyche? You rambled off about some ancestors being poor and somehow you think that everybody in LEF come from primitive backgrounds...Really? That's exactly what JD did and it is sad that people like you fell a prey to this. Most LEF people see themselves as being worthless and useless before their encounter with LEF and JD and give complete credit of what they are today to their association with the "elite of LEF." JD and clan knew how to exploit this psyche of people to keep them in the perpetual state of slavery. One can only feel sorry for a person like you whose mind is shackled so as to not see the truth...
DeleteOn 29 April 2015, at 06:47, Anonymous commented:
DeleteThe "pigeon head" ……
Thanks for remembering him again........
Another May Retreat, but how many of you know the insides, Some years ago JD understood that he cant hold on the LEF and so decided to form a set of convict wardens / Havildar Majors as in the army. So to these worthies, rooms were allotted on a permanent basis in the great Beulah Gardens, So these people bought chairs cots mattresses, water coolers, refrigerators etc and stocked up the rooms (maybe on own money or by Gods money). So the retreat is a nice time of relaxation with family, friends, grandchildren.Money is plenty call a cab go to the city, comeback.plan marriages, Some poor lady will com and wash and iron the clothes,Another will bring hot water (all free and unpaid, it is service to God) One of the children will order extra food / fruits, Rice is free, eat sleep nicely and attend and also sleep in the messages, It is a nice natural way to destress. call it a christian retreat, what a joke, but these worthies hopefully will support the LEF, hopefully they wont backstab
ReplyDeleteFew years back as LEF HQ was painted for Caleb Daniel's wedding a painter fell down from a height of 60 feet and died.The poor guy did not have protective straps so he had a head injury and died.While this guy was writing in pain the onlookers from LEF HQ were not responsive to the emergency.The guy was in pain for almost 2 hrs and finally some Samaritan from LEF took him to the hospital where he succumbed to his internal injuries.
ReplyDeleteTwo years back Gunalan's maid Rani's only son came to LEF Beulah Gardens to work voluntarily .The guy got electrocuted and died .
Volunteers and friends of LEF don't work for LEF.They don't pay you.You work and they enjoy the fruit of your labour. If something bad happens LEF will disown you.BEWARE .
Let the painters family contact the free legal cell in the High Court of Chennai and file a case of carelessness against the LEF and ask for Rs.10 crore as compensation. Even a single letter addressed to the Chief Justice of the High Court of Chennai is enough, similarly let Gunalan's maid Rani file another case, Let the LEF first family atleast accept that they would be held responsible for what happens in the LEF
DeleteDon't go to the Retreat.If something bad were to happen LEF will wash its hands and disown you.
ReplyDeleteLD for your greed and control do not let people die. By following you not only people are loosing life, family ,their livelihood they are loosing their soul for eternity, while many are finding and following JESUS and living a power life for him. You can say only LEF is the way to heaven. But can you show one testimony like the following among your follwers. This is the real testimony https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuI_-47MoBU
ReplyDeleteA Christian testimony is an open acknowledgement of the journey of a person from start to finish (beginning, continuation and finish) with God, through Jesus Christ. Since at the time of giving the testimony the person would still be continuing the journey and not finish it, many times, it concludes with the beginning. No testimonies of any two people are identical; which does not mean one’s standard is lower than the other.
DeleteSalvation is not – what one does to get it, other than the acceptance of the death of Jesus and his resurrection. The state he is in before accepting Jesus as his personal savior does not make any difference and add a feather in the cap of the individual, but only speaks of the love and power of God. However, the realization a sinner gets while accepting Christ could lead him to a deeper relationship with God, though it does not guarantee his continuation and finish of the Christian life.
In the LEF salvation has and will be never preached, You are always encouraged to dig deep and deep and keep on confessing (real and Imagined) sins till the date of your death. God is never shown as a God of Love but one who is like a village schoolmaster who never smiled and was illogical and just beat everybody. To appease such a God you have to give gifts to Daniel family and then they will pray and God will hear their prayers and you will survive, if not you are gone. This message has produced unstable unbalanced people who were always worried that they may never be good enough for God
DeleteCan LEF Leaders please contract out labor work and specialized electrical work etc to trained professionals. The have the money to hire the professionals but want the money to be used by themselves and brainwash their followers into doing labor work or specialized work which they are not trained to do. Can someone speak out at their Annual Retreat in May!! How long will people hand their heads outside the gate of LEF centers to mindlessly listen to their poor and theologically unsound sermons and laugh at their silly imitations and become party to promoting these "god men" and "god women". Come on Educated LEFers rise up and speak the truth!!!
ReplyDeleteWho cares for the service of the workers,,
ReplyDeletesomeone speak out at their Annual Retreat in May!!, Who will all of us have become dumb dogs.If so much comments have not waken up the rogues then soon kicks will send out these monarchs.
As I know except Money and offerings, all other things have been outsourced by the Daniels, good bargain, you do the work and I will get the money.
What you can expect in LEF May retreat-2015.
Delete1.Some one will come and give a testimony of how John led him to the lord.
2.Some lady would say how Junior LD and Lizard taught her holiness\
3.Eulogies about the Eternal President JD.
4.Family show by D5 and CD (Callu Daniel)
5.Release of JD's Autobiography 3rd volume "CARRIED BY
EVERLASTING ARMS" and a discount sale of the book .
6.JD's messages will be played on the Big Screen and people would be expected to say wow what a powerful message.
please publish the promised book on LEF dudes soon
ReplyDeleteYes brother, please do publish the book..
ReplyDeleteWe would love to publish that "PDF document." The person who claims to have that document seems to have been bought over by Lily Daniel and the rogue team. LEF has tons of unaccounted money and we hear Daniel Mani is in charge of silencing the people from exposing LD and her rogue team by paying them up. The kind of corruption, bribery and blackmail that goes on in LEF is just unbelievable. We have pursued very hard to get that document and could not succeed. This person who claims to have that document seems to be using the document as some kind of bargaining chip to see who would pay more for it. Oh well, we are not here to bribe anybody to expose these LEF rogues. We cannot reduce ourselves to become like LD who won't hesitate to bribe her own kids to carry out her wicked plans. We are hoping like all our readers that some sense will prevail and this person will release that document for the general good of LEF community.
ReplyDeleteHey Guys and Girls,
ReplyDeleteYou need to wait for the book till 15th May.I have seen the draft and over 1000 copies are to printed and distributed at BG,Sirunium Village from 15th to 25th May.The author plans to publish the book on google books and make it freely available through torrents.The English and Telugu Versions are ready.The Tamil version could be delayed till May end.
Thanks for your update. So, whoever came to us saying that he has the copy of the document may be trying to fool around and see if he can make some money out of it. We hope not that this book you are referring to is third volume of JD's autobiography...Somebody has sent the whistle blowers the draft of third volume of JD's autobiography few months ago. We are waiting to see how much of it is LD going change as a lot of people who JD talked about in that book have left LEF for good in the last 14 years after LD and her blue-eyed boy IC took over the LEF administration. Also, while some of them have moved out and not looked back there are others who JD talked about in that book who are pitching a bitter fight with LD and JJD's corrupt regime.The highlights of this book in which JD boasts of German ministry and the other triumph stories are totally decimated now and we are very curious to see how LD is going to stand the shame of accepting that what her husband boasted about in his book is non-existent (thanks to LD who barged into LEF's administration after viciously kicking out her nemesis, Mrs.Kamala Paul.The draft of the book has numerous references to Mr. Whitson Paul who for no mistake of his is being humiliated and taunted by LD, JJD and the new witch another LD. Also, wondering how LD will justify her statement from her husband's funeral that only her husband and Devanamma built LEF work after the death of Mr. N. Daniel, now that her husband's "AUTOBIOGRAPHY" has references to so many people whom JD praised in his book as major contributors to LEF's growth. We are eagerly waiting to see the official version of that book as that will prove what kind of an evil manipulator LD is based on what she will add or remove to the original draft of that book (a copy of which was mailed to us by some "insider" who might be trying in his or her own way to help chase this rogue family out of LEF)
DeleteDear Anonymous, please do not distribute your book at BG entrance, because the LEF thughs will show their devotion to JJD and LD by getting into a fight and the police will side up with them.Send copies to Tamil newspapers and magazines, Make the book available on the internet, and let those who want it in printed form contact you and you see that they get a paid printed copy.Be discrete.
DeleteUnborn as in abortions? What are you suggesting? Are you saying this evil woman has the blood of the unborn children on her hands?
ReplyDeleteshe and her team know it is not abortion but heard her faithful once had forced abortion, Yes this women has blood on her hand for encouraging the monster. She knows and soon when she comes her gossip and cover up to control in the name of God's work will be revealed and in Luke 12;3 What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs. Her and her team are not going to escape the cry of the innocent blood unborn and unknown because they are poor. But for sure more manipulation and abuse is coming from them. They are not going to stop till God intervenes.
Deletelet the good person who wrote the book on LEF please get money from Moneybag Daniel Mani but also publish it so that we all will be happy, LEF has so much stolen money that they will not even notice the money given
ReplyDeleteOn 30 April 2015, at 22:41, Anonymous commented:
Delete“Let the good person who wrote the book on LEF please get money from Moneybag Daniel Mani but also publish it so that we all will be happy, LEF has so much stolen money that they will not even notice the money given”
So you are calling the person who is said to have looked for more money to sell his book, ‘GOOD’! And you are suggesting stealing money to gratify your desire! That itself speaks volumes about you. In an attempt to lay bare the faults of others, you should not stoop down to doing such or even worse mistakes.
You got it wrong. It is to offset the cost of printing and publishing...
DeletePlease, Please clarify, as LD and JD always boasted that LD never did a abortion even when she was a medical student, who was the faithful princess who forced abortions ? (of course I don't doubt your information, but this is very saddening)
ReplyDeleteHer followers one said he beat his pregnant wife to loose the baby just because she listen to outside preacher and he a supporter of fellowship but doesnot follow anything principles. LD is very close to him. another very very close one forced his daugter in law to abot the baby both are very very active in LEF She knows very well and did nothing about it and covered up for them for her gain.
DeleteA few more must to happen at the LEF retreat May 2015
ReplyDelete8. one old women, will say how an angel had told her that he will not die before she had heard Bro.Daniels great grandchildren preach
9. How dozens of Angels were walking on the stage when JJD was preaching (some stood behind him to protect him)
10. How Billions and Millions were preached the Gospel by the Daniel clan
11. How simple their family was living, without a bit of money / land
12. Nice yarns, Hogwash etc
13. Barking dogs and questioning people must be burnt alive
14. Any one talks bad of Gods children, they may happily leave the LEF
15. Where can you go from the LEF, of course some simple mistakes may have happened in a few places
16. Pledges of eternal allegiance by Old men (who are old to be JJD's grandfather) like this " I faithfully served the Grandfather/ father , now I will faithfully serve the son and his children and children's children"
17. Everyone knows every statement made is fraud but will be so quiet.like Bible supports no-accounts, I wont pay anything for the evangelists, let them beg but give me the first share etc
Dear Anonymous April 30, 2015 5:57 AM
ReplyDeleteWhen everything is O.K., naturally one does not care, but when something goes terribly wrong – particularly with problems with growing children, sudden death, getting disabled for the rest of the life in an accident etc., we look for help, hope, support, and cure, when we DO CARE, which we ignored earlier!
Dear , this is the cardinal message of LEF, if you disagree with the great first family, what you wrote will happen and they will not be there to help you. FYI, this is plain bullying. God will be there to help comfort and sustain all.
Looks like the author of the comments you referred to meant entirely a different thing; he never seemed to have even remotely supported any robbery.
If an organization receives public money it is required by law that it must publish its accounts, One family steals all the money and all know about that. If stealing is not robbery then what it is it, it is dacoity. People don't give their hard earned sacrificial money so that a bunch of lumps live in comfort without doing a honest day of work . OK steal the money,live in comfort but announce it before the collection saying this money is for the Daniel clan, don't say "We give you an opportunity to participate in Gods work".
I am sure you stopped putting your coins into the offering bag of the said organization you are against, so where is the need for you to worry?
I am happy I STOPPED giving money to these open looters, dozens of India organizations maintain fiscal prudence and discipline and they now get my offerings, but I want all to stop giving their money to LEF.
To cover up open looting no one needs to spin a yarn that one soul saved is worth more than all the Gold in the World (one is a criminal act and the other spiritual, don't compare Apples with Oranges)
Ld and her followers have these strange idea about this blog. when questioned about all these problems coming up they say people talked about JESUS too.Why cant they see JEsus served other, never lied, didnot oppress the poor, humle,commpassianate and only time he was angry was at the people like LD and her followers who loot the poor at the place of God to people like and her team he says micha 2:1-3 1Woe to those who scheme iniquity, Who work out evil on their beds! When morning comes, they do it, For it is in the power of their hands. 2They covet fields and then seize them, And houses, and take them away. They rob a man and his house, A man and his inheritance. 3Therefore thus says the LORD, "Behold, I am planning against this family a calamity From which you cannot remove your necks; And you will not walk haughtily, For it will be an evil time.…
ReplyDeleteThere are many issues to discuss concerning the LEF, including teachings, outreach, ministry, leadership and organizational structure. Of course I won't try to do all of that in a single comment. Let me suggest that the blog and the commenters would be most convincing if each person would write clearly and either stick to the facts or pose good questions. While I understand that many people have been deeply hurt by the LEF, let's keep the discussion at a higher level.
ReplyDeleteSince much of this blog/discussion concerns financial issues, let me make a few comments about that. ANY organization registered with the government (the LEF surely is) must officially follow certain rules. JD would always claim that his focus was on the Kingdom of God and he did not want to focus on organizational issues and take attention away from spiritual growth. He is posing a false dichotomy, that is, that one cannot be both organized and spiritual. Of course you can! I would suggest that until the LEF has clear, transparent organization, one should not give them any money. Again, ANY reputable organization does this. The collection from each center should be clearly documented, the expenses, etc. The LEF officially has a board, but they never properly met (JD would hold prayer meetings and these would be the official "board meetings")
The board should hold regular, PROPER meetings and make organizational issues collectively. Of course the Daniels are afraid of this, for various reasons, but since they are an official charitable organization, they should grow up and act like one.
Once I sat with JD in his HQ office and he called a brother in to bring him a large sum of money. The brother seemed surprised, and JD got mad and told just to get the money. There was no explanation given. When the LEF gets its house in order, THEN you start giving again. If you are concerned for a local evangelist, perhaps bring him food, clothing, etc which will not be illegally transferred to others.
I'm not suggesting that every LEF person needs to understand the finances. In a normal organization, a well-functioning group of leaders collectively make decisions and everything is transparent. A level of trust is exercised. In the LEF, however, there is no transparency and abuses occur on a large scale. Do not be afraid. You have every right to have a proper organization. It's actually not hard to have proper accountability. JD told the Canadians that he was accountable to no one but God. For his soul this may be true, but not as an organizational leader. Don't let the Daniels hide behind their "power". If they are clean, they have nothing to fear.
To North American: thank you for your clear setting out of principles in connection with the running of an organisation where money is a factor; also for your plea to posters to be a little more focused in what they post - as a non-Indian who has absolutely no time for LEF or the Daniel family, I am nevertheless getting more confused by the day! However I do not think that the abused LEF attenders (and that means anyone who is not actually taking part in inflicting the abuse, whether they see themselves as victims or not!) should be seeking to rectify matters within LEF. There is no doubt that most members of the Daniel family, including extended family members, are scoundrels; there are also many equally corrupt 'henchmen' whose names have been made public here. There are also genuine believers who are nevertheless blinded to reality by misplaced loyalty to an organisation which has always had a shaky basis, in Christian terms, with its dubious theology, and, within that framework, an apparent complete lack of the understanding and teaching of essential ecclesiology.
ReplyDeleteWith all of the above in mind, what is left on which to build any kind of genuine Christian church? Nothing. Requiring LEF to introduce and adhere to normal organisational procedures, or, indeed, Biblical principles , is to try to turn the proverbial sow's ear into a silk purse, or to build upon sand. It cannot be done. One has to have the correct material from which to construct the desired article. Rather let us encourage LEF adherents who genuinely want the abuses to stop to meet and pray together as a new, embryonic church whose elected leadership can then begin to implement Biblical church government, and care for their flock with the compassion and honesty that the Lord Jesus spoke of and Himself exercised.
The arrogance with which Joshua Daniel dismissed and scorned the law and Biblical church government is breathtakingly incredible. Even more incredible is the fact that nobody firmly enough took him to task about this and insisted that he be obedient in these matters, although I know that some godly older saints tried, and even asked me to help them. Most incredible of all is that people still try to defend Joshua Daniel and his corrupt regime.
To 01 may 2015, at 10:26, Anonymous: You have made several valid points.
ReplyDeleteBut let respectfully disagree on a couple of points:
1) Those who have been abused should challenge the LEF, at least collectively. The leaders prefer that those with a complaint follow one of two paths: be quiet, repent and submit, or leave. In either case, the abuse usually stays hidden. This needs to come out into the light, assuming that the organization can be salvaged. This leads to
2) I believe the LEF *can* be salvaged. Yes, some of teaching is just plain wrong, there are some destructive leaders, it's badly organized, etc. However, many people join the LEF for similar reasons: they want to fellowship with a group of like-minded people seeking a walk with God. Since I left the LEF many years ago, I can't speak to how common this is now, but it was certainly true back then. One reason why the abuse of power has lasted is because these sincere seekers and followers may be naive and simply trust the leaders. They are focused on their spiritual lives and their humility, coupled with fear of disobedience, restrain their complaints. If the follower goes to one of these leaders to complain (or share their "negative thinking"), they are told to repent. The leaders are taking advantage of submission when legitimate concerns are raised. I saw this many times. A parallel strategy is that people are not supposed to talk with each other about their concerns with others; they know that if the speak, they will be ratted out and then receive rebukes, etc. Of course this atmosphere isolates people and they often imagine that *they* are the problem. These false leaders are truly wolves in sheep's clothing. But many of the congregants want to learn, fellowship together and grow. Moreover, what would happen if the whole LEF collapsed? The properties would be sold, and guess who the owner is? I know that several of them were formally owned by JD. I can't speak to this in India, but it may be worth finding out. In Canada, the center was owned by "LEF Southwestern Ontario", so JD could not steal it when the work broke down. A majority of the board (three out of five) decided to exercise their legal responsibilities and *they* decided how the work would go forward. I would hope the same could be done in other parts of the LEF.
To North American: interesting, but I still cannot understand why anyone would want to continue under the auspices of a discredited cultish organisation with a totally discredited leadership. Surely even the name 'LEF' itself would carry negative connotations to anyone interested, and if it does not, then such people should not remain in ignorance? I take your point about the resources, both in cash and in property. There is property in London which is worth over £1,000,000, of which the legal ownership has not yet been established. I suspect that the Daniels have made quite sure that they have an overwhelming legal interest in all of the Indian property, although exactly how they have done this is still not quite clear, e.g. Lydia Daniel's name appears on some documents, and John and Lily on others. I would love the Indians to challenge these Daniel people collectively, but suspect that most of them either do not have the resources, or they are too embroiled in profiting from the outcomes of the Daniel misdeeds to want to try. If there are any others on any LEF boards, they are probably outnumbered by puppet Daniels and henchmen.
DeleteYou are absolutely right about the Daniel strategies which were employed to stop people's entirely reasonable objections to, and enquirers into, their dubious activities. I too witnessed them, although ignored them!
I think many would like to see the Daniels publicly made to repent and restore what they have taken, or at least to hand over everything to honest, responsible, mature Christians who would use it for the benefit of suffering LEF adherents. However I suspect that in a country like India it is a lot harder to bring this about than it might be in N. America.
I agree that it would be good to salvage the local corporate worship of the people in LEF, but I just cannot see the sense or logic in trying to preserve the name 'Laymen's Evangelical Fellowship' in any shape or form, beyond what would need to be retained whilst attempting to recoup some of the losses. What right-minded Christian would want to be associated with that name now, after all that is coming to light?