The overwhelming response to our last blog about the deaths relating to LEF's May retreats exposed some very disturbing facts. Death of any person on account of his/her association to LEF is not acceptable. Daniel family which was and wants to be the whole and sole of LEF has to not only take moral responsibility for the deaths of the people but also has to compensate the families who lost their loved ones (especially if the dead happen to be the bread winner of the people).
Here is a church that proudly recorded some tall claims about the founder of LEF, Mr.N. Daniel that he wanted to know what God wanted to teach him even when he was struck by a small stone while walking. The late JD in the biography of his father recorded that his dad Mr. N. Daniel would not ignore something as small as being hit by a stone on the toe while walking as just an accident and that he would find out from God why he was hit by the stone as he claimed the promise of that "God would give angels the charge to bear God's people in their arms, lest their foot dash against the stone." For numerous years, LEF people had this drilled into their heads that God will not allow any harm to befall them while they are doing something for God/LEF. Then how can one explain all these deaths of people on account of their associations with LEF and especially on account of May retreats? How are LEF people justifying the deaths of people who died on their way to come and get the place ready for May retreat? What about the deaths of 5 or more people during the retreat time itself four years ago? How did LEF spiral down from a community that claimed that God won't even allow a stone to strike the foot of the people who love God to the one where even deaths of people relating to May retreat won't force people to stop and ask the question- "What has gone wrong with LEF?"
We never heard of any deaths is LEF in the post LD regime. These deaths have started after LD and her stooges hijacked LEF...Quite interestingly all of these mishaps started happening once the May retreat moved to "Beulah Garden" which is a like Jewel in the crown of JD and clan. If you or somebody you know is planning to be at the May retreat, it may be a good idea to reassess the credibility of LEF and see if LEF in its present form has anything good to offer to spiritually enrich of people.
Unless people are greatly starved for entertainment and want to be entertained by the circus troupe coming to Chennai for yet another annual show in the hot Chennai summer, there is no logical reason for anybody to make their way to the retreat. Already the "May Retreat" team has come up with some solid plans to make some "quick money" to make good for the loss of income on account of rapidly declining monthly collections (according to one reliable source the monthly collections seem to have fallen by 70%). The local people of Chennai (who bring their own food and who also spend money every day to commute by buses to come to the retreat) will also be made to pay a registration fee. What is the registration fee for? Is it for the air they breath in "Beulah Garden" as people need to even pay to refill their water bottles during the retreat? Pay money to refill water bottles??? Yes, you heard it right. People do need to pay money to refill their water bottles. We can give some more ideas to make money. Why not charge money to use the toilets like they do in some bus stands, railway stations and other public places? Shame on these LEF leaders and Daniel family !!! After eating the tithes and offerings of people for years on end, they still want to fleece money from people who come to the retreats for basic stuff like water. One can understand how greedy these LEF rogues are, who don't even want to give something as basic as water free of charge for the retreat attendees. Open your eyes, my dear people and get out of this hell called LEF while you still have some self-respect and money in your pocket left. These rogues will fleece you till you are left without any money or self-respect and it might be a little too late to get out then as you would've become worthless not only to others but also to your own self.
Surprise...Surprise...May retreat attendees may also see the "Banned daughter of Late JD" once again on the May retreat pulpits. Now that her dad who wrote the letter is no more around to implement the ban, she might make her way back to the LEF pulpits ( of course she already did during the funeral of her dad when most people were too grief-stricken to question her appearance on the stage) Also, LD needs as many of her children's hands as possible to help pull the sinking ship up. Never mind that this very daughter said that LD was possessed by Jezebel spirit. After all, isn't it noble to forgive? After finishing her show of service (some of you might recall that she wanted the photographer and the video recorder to capture the moments) in the earth-quake stricken Nepal, she might make a short trip to May retreat to dwarf her kid brother who is already trailing behind in wooing the crowds. In some ways this may be better as LEF people will have some variety in the shows at "Beulah Gardens." Who ever is the preacher who manages to keep the people awake can win the award of "BEST SHOW MAN/WOMAN" in the upcoming circus show.
Here is a church that proudly recorded some tall claims about the founder of LEF, Mr.N. Daniel that he wanted to know what God wanted to teach him even when he was struck by a small stone while walking. The late JD in the biography of his father recorded that his dad Mr. N. Daniel would not ignore something as small as being hit by a stone on the toe while walking as just an accident and that he would find out from God why he was hit by the stone as he claimed the promise of that "God would give angels the charge to bear God's people in their arms, lest their foot dash against the stone." For numerous years, LEF people had this drilled into their heads that God will not allow any harm to befall them while they are doing something for God/LEF. Then how can one explain all these deaths of people on account of their associations with LEF and especially on account of May retreats? How are LEF people justifying the deaths of people who died on their way to come and get the place ready for May retreat? What about the deaths of 5 or more people during the retreat time itself four years ago? How did LEF spiral down from a community that claimed that God won't even allow a stone to strike the foot of the people who love God to the one where even deaths of people relating to May retreat won't force people to stop and ask the question- "What has gone wrong with LEF?"
We never heard of any deaths is LEF in the post LD regime. These deaths have started after LD and her stooges hijacked LEF...Quite interestingly all of these mishaps started happening once the May retreat moved to "Beulah Garden" which is a like Jewel in the crown of JD and clan. If you or somebody you know is planning to be at the May retreat, it may be a good idea to reassess the credibility of LEF and see if LEF in its present form has anything good to offer to spiritually enrich of people.
Unless people are greatly starved for entertainment and want to be entertained by the circus troupe coming to Chennai for yet another annual show in the hot Chennai summer, there is no logical reason for anybody to make their way to the retreat. Already the "May Retreat" team has come up with some solid plans to make some "quick money" to make good for the loss of income on account of rapidly declining monthly collections (according to one reliable source the monthly collections seem to have fallen by 70%). The local people of Chennai (who bring their own food and who also spend money every day to commute by buses to come to the retreat) will also be made to pay a registration fee. What is the registration fee for? Is it for the air they breath in "Beulah Garden" as people need to even pay to refill their water bottles during the retreat? Pay money to refill water bottles??? Yes, you heard it right. People do need to pay money to refill their water bottles. We can give some more ideas to make money. Why not charge money to use the toilets like they do in some bus stands, railway stations and other public places? Shame on these LEF leaders and Daniel family !!! After eating the tithes and offerings of people for years on end, they still want to fleece money from people who come to the retreats for basic stuff like water. One can understand how greedy these LEF rogues are, who don't even want to give something as basic as water free of charge for the retreat attendees. Open your eyes, my dear people and get out of this hell called LEF while you still have some self-respect and money in your pocket left. These rogues will fleece you till you are left without any money or self-respect and it might be a little too late to get out then as you would've become worthless not only to others but also to your own self.
Surprise...Surprise...May retreat attendees may also see the "Banned daughter of Late JD" once again on the May retreat pulpits. Now that her dad who wrote the letter is no more around to implement the ban, she might make her way back to the LEF pulpits ( of course she already did during the funeral of her dad when most people were too grief-stricken to question her appearance on the stage) Also, LD needs as many of her children's hands as possible to help pull the sinking ship up. Never mind that this very daughter said that LD was possessed by Jezebel spirit. After all, isn't it noble to forgive? After finishing her show of service (some of you might recall that she wanted the photographer and the video recorder to capture the moments) in the earth-quake stricken Nepal, she might make a short trip to May retreat to dwarf her kid brother who is already trailing behind in wooing the crowds. In some ways this may be better as LEF people will have some variety in the shows at "Beulah Gardens." Who ever is the preacher who manages to keep the people awake can win the award of "BEST SHOW MAN/WOMAN" in the upcoming circus show.
There are some interesting and relevant Bible studies on the website of:
ReplyDeleteSt. Paul's Free Evangelical church, Bexhill-on-sea, England
Readers may be particularly helped by the pastor's (Peter Gadsden, a man in his seventies who has pastored for many years in the UK and USA, and also run a theological institution and other Christian ministries) series on 'church membership', including one study on fasting, and three on tithing. The studies are very detailed, but they show how misguided the LEF's teachings are on such topics. The habitual 'fasting' prayer tradition of LEF has no Biblical basis (hence it is not surprising that many only pay lip service to the 'fasting' element), and the purely Old Testament practice of tithing excluded the poor, and largely involved ministering by means of the tithes given to those less fortunate, including the sick, widows, and orphans. Nowhere in Scripture are such vulnerable people told to go away and ' exercise faith', whilst church 'leaders' (in LEF's case, 'hirelings') make use of the money exacted from the congregations, through spiritual blackmail, for their own comforts.
I recommend this church website to all who are confused by LEF error. There are studies and messages on a number of subjects, and quite often the pastor speaks on subjects by request, and as queries are put to him in the course of different series. I am sure that Mr. Gadsden (though currently recovering from hip replacement surgery) would be happy to answer any questions you may wish to ask him via email (contact details should be on the church site).
http://www.stpaulsfreechurchbexhill.org.uk/welcome.htm
DeleteThe tithing in LEF not only excluded the poor, widows & orphan, it excluded the church itself! Right in HQ when the song books were in short supply some years ago, individuals resorted to buying the song books for use in the Sunday morning service! The money given by the congregation in the centres rarely gets used by the centre. The money is sent to HQ. Money for rent, electricity seems to be returned. But for other genuine needs like songbooks, sound system, etc individuals sometimes pay instead of begging the high command for their own money.
DeleteFor those interested, here is the website of St. Paul's Free Evangelical church referred in Anonymous' above post.
Suniemi: thanks for supplying the link to the St. Paul's website, and for your enlightening comment re song books. However I may have misled in my post. I meant that in the Old Testament the requirement to tithe was only imposed on certain people, and the practice of tithing was never required of the poor. Also, interestingly, only farmers and those who reared animals were required to tithe - not e.g. artisans or fishermen. The tithe was always in kind (i.e. a tenth part of the grain collected, or every tenth animal - meaning that if you only had nine cows, you did not have to chop them up in order to give a tenth part, but you were exempt at that time!). Of course, and especially under the New Testament covenant (in which times we live), believers are encouraged to give free-will (emphasis here on FREE!!!) offerings, intended for the extension of the Gospel and the local needs of their church - building maintenance, pastor's stipend, ministry to the poor and vulnerable etc. Hence the example of the widow's mite; she gave because she wanted to, not because someone had used spiritual blackmail. Dr. Gadsden explains this from Scripture in great detail.
DeleteI have drawn attention to these Bible studies for two reasons. Firstly, because I know that Joshua Daniel used to harrass people to 'tithe to the fellowship', and would hence enquire and intrude impertinently into LEF people's personal finances (similarly their marriages, of course). He clearly had no understanding of the true nature of the Biblical tithe. Secondly, because many have confirmed that no help was ever given to LEF evangelists, or others, who fell on hard times, whereas the real OT tithe was in large part intended for this purpose.
In addition, and on the topic of fasting, it is clear from Scripture that there is no Biblical instruction to New Testament believers to fast, and certainly not routinely every Saturday under the orders of Joshua Daniel or any other alleged 'leader'.
All believers must be 'Bereans', and check out everything for themselves, no matter who preaches it. Joshua Daniel and his adherents actively discouraged or forbade congregants to discuss matters of doctrine - I have myself been asked not to continue with an interesting discussion after a meeting. I suggest that this is because a) he and they had/have no true education in or understanding of Biblical doctrine themselves, and b) Joshua Daniel realised that genuine, Spirit-prompted discussion would reveal his ignorance and misuse of Scripture, so he imposed a veto on healthy debate, under the guise of not questioning the views of 'the Lord's anointed' (another misuse of Scripture!), 'not causing dissension'. The New Testament accounts reveal that discussion was fundamental (to the establishment of the early church, and the rooting out of apostate and heretical teaching). It still is.
I probably used the word “tithing” wrongly but I was responding to your comment “ministering by means of the tithes given to those less fortunate, including the sick, widows, and orphans”. I wanted to show how even certain basic financial needs like money for song books does not seem to be available for the “members” even though LEF accepted their tithes & offerings. So to expect LEF to spend on genuine orphanages, widows or retired missionaries seems un-realistic.
DeleteIt is sad to learn that Joshua Daniel discouraged people to discuss doctrine and you were also asked not to continue in a discussion after a meeting. I wonder how reformers like Martin Luther would have been treated if they had been fighting LEF!
Suniemi: it seems that in many things Indian adherents to LEF were treated by Joshua Daniel more like worthless beggars than like esteemed brothers and sisters. This was not so marked in the European meetings. However, 'Let each esteem other better than self' is a Biblical admonition which seems to have escaped the notice of the Daniels! In fairness, it was not Joshua Daniel who tried to stop a doctrinal discussion, but one of his most faithful (and hence blinded!) followers in the UK who, in the absence of his 'master' , I imagine felt obliged to try to impose the retreat rule of 'it is forbidden to talk to each other'. This man, apart from JD's influence, is quite a sweet and generous-spirited person. Unfortunately that tended to be swallowed up in his zeal to hang on to and obey Joshua Daniel's every utterance......he even imitated his mannerisms and language when preaching or praying. I do recall being asked by him to read aloud part of a long and boring annual report, which I declined to do on the basis that I did not feel it was a spiritually profitable use of limited time. I was told that I should be 'honoured to do this for my 'spiritual leader' '. My response was that JD was by no stretch of the imagination my 'spiritual leader'. I had little to do with Joshua Daniel who, on his rare preaching visits, came across as something of a showman, with little of spiritual consequence to convey beneath all the 'avuncular posturing'. However I do remember how much he boasted of starting schools and clinics; I naturally assumed that these were for poor people who could afford to pay little or nothing. I had myself worked in a mission hospital, and even helped teach in a mission school, so I have been particularly shocked to read here and elsewhere that in reality these ventures trumpeted about by Joshua Daniel were largely just other forms of money-making. That is especially sad when one reads of the expensive private education he seemed to have acquired for his own children, and the expertise in medical care he enjoyed in relation to his own health problems.
DeleteI do not think that Luther or Calvin would have had much time for the ramblings of Joshua Daniel.......who might, perhaps, have been a not unpleasant old man if he had not spent his life using LEF to foster delusions of grandeur!
(Not that a beggar is really worthless......sorry about that, should have written 'despised', or something. Has LEF ever witnessed to beggars, by the way, and has any beggar ever come to a knowledge of The Lord Jesus?)
DeleteWater is a precious commodity in BG, unlike in many parts of AP where it is abundantly available. If it is purified through a plant for drinking and supplied at nominal price, I would not find fault with it; but if they try to charge way more and try to make business, it is not good. Here one has to understand that some of the folks who attend the retreats would avoid wastage only if they are made to pay - no matter however small: otherwise, they use drinking water purified through a plant for washing faces, taking bath and even washing clothes.
ReplyDeleteAre there any rocks in Beulah Gardens? One solution would be for John Daniel to strike one, and cause enough water for all purposes to come gushing out.......surely the May retreat attendees will not outnumber the Isaelites in the desert?
DeleteBG was bought from offerings of the LEF people. Similar is the case of the wter purifier "The following is the typical reasoning " Here one has to understand that some of the folks who attend the retreats would avoid wastage only if they are made to pay - no matter however small: otherwise, they use drinking water purified through a plant for washing faces, taking bath and even washing clothes." Have you seen this happening, this washing of clothes, You feel LEF people are a bunch of bumpkins. Ok what happens to this money, it directly goes to the Daniel clans pocket, then what way it is correct
DeleteOn 05 may 2015, at 02:59, Anonymous commented:
Delete“BG was bought from offerings of the LEF people. Similar is the case of the wter purifier "The following is the typical reasoning " Here one has to understand that some of the folks who attend the retreats would avoid wastage only if they are made to pay - no matter however small: otherwise, they use drinking water purified through a plant for washing faces, taking bath and even washing clothes." Have you seen this happening, this washing of clothes, You feel LEF people are a bunch of bumpkins. Ok what happens to this money, it directly goes to the Daniel clans pocket, then what way it is correct”
Do not know how old you are, but what the author of the comment you referred to was right. In those days in 60s and 70s many people had to wash their clothes occasionally on retreat campuses to be able to wear a clean pair of clothing. For you information, mangoes used to be served sometimes for lunch at 112 Kodambakkam HR, and needy evangelists were given return ticket fare from retreats to their respective places! Know the facts before giggling!
Now you are the one who will make everybody giggle. Based on what you said about mangoes and paying train fare for evangelists, an intelligent person should ask a different question- why is LEF which once served mangoes and gave money for ticket fares is acting so cheap and charging people for water? Did LEF become poorer than what it was in 70s or did LEF people become greedy for money and hence are making everything into a business? It will serve you well to use your intelligence before you start blabbering whatever comes to your mind
DeleteFrom what I know of May retreats, past or present, they would not be places in which Jesus would feel 'at home'. Rather he would be turning over tables!
DeleteThe problem of available water is by no means the worst abuse or anomaly associated with this circus, but I would have thought that the free provision of a supply of water for washing, whether of clothes or oneself, is the least of the courtesies that the organisers should extend to those who have travelled so far to be entertained by the dubious 'talents' of the Daniel tribe. Even a theatre or a cinema usually has a tap......
And he called out with a mighty voice,
ReplyDelete“Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great!
She has become a dwelling place for demons,
a haunt for every unclean spirit,
a haunt for every unclean bird,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable beast.
For all nations have drunk
the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality,
and the kings of the earth have committed immorality with her,
and the merchants of the earth have grown rich from the power of her luxurious living.”
Then I heard another voice from heaven saying,
“Come out of her, my people,
lest you take part in her sins,
lest you share in her plagues;
for her sins are heaped high as heaven,
and God has remembered her iniquities.
Pay her back as she herself has paid back others,
and repay her double for her deeds;
mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed.
As she glorified herself and lived in luxury,
so give her a like measure of torment and mourning,
since in her heart she says,
‘I sit as a queen,
I am no widow,
and mourning I shall never see.’
For this reason her plagues will come in a single day,
death and mourning and famine,
and she will be burned up with fire;
for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.”
(Revelation 18:2-8 ESV)
No gift for the 1,00,000 th visitor of the blog?
ReplyDeleteGift to the 1,00,000th visitor to the blog is the same as that to any other visitor to it: that is, vital enlightenment, leading to escape from the LEF and a lifetime of spiritual (and sometimes physical) abuse!
DeleteLD and Junior LD are on a vacation in France now.Are they in the fashion capital of the world to buy perfumes and cosmetics to Junior LD or are they in Paris to make junior LD the head of LEF France.The The Lizard woman is in Nepal trying to take photographs near the earthquake Rubble .She will soon post those pics in Facebook.She would be doing this to fool some LEF people who have some sympathy towards her.
ReplyDeleteThese crooks will be in LEF in time for the retreats to tell people that they have come to serve the people.
LEF friends and fans may please question their evangelists and the Daniel Family on the objective and goals of their mission France & Nepal.
Lizard woman needs the LEF money badly and so will take photos at Nepal to show her motherly kindness, Possibly all the money she got has already run out, She has no shame , and the Daniel family also, she will come as long as she get money
DeleteNotice she is marked safe for the earthquakes. Since she was not in Nepal at the time.....
DeleteThe bible also continues "You will tread on the lion and the cobra; you will trample the great lion and the serpent.", I always wondered at the selective application of this verse, will the Daniel clan do this, hope so
ReplyDeletemost of these people do not know about the dark side of their rulers(oops, men of god). the contents of this blog should be brought out in print and distribute at that retreat center
ReplyDeleteYes should keep a complain box about their. Stories outside the retreat probably. Need a lorry
Delete